Code states that all bedroom outlet supplied by 15 And 20 amp branch cir to be on AFCI...We have a local Inspector that allows smoke detectors to be non-AFCI protected as long as you put on 10a bkr....I can't find anywhere in code to say he is wrong..WE still use AFCI on smokes in his town.....small price to pay huh? anyone have any code info?
Smoke Detectors and AFCI
- Thread starter sebowen
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Very good question. Here are three relevant articles:
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210.12(B):
Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.
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100 (Definitions):
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
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210.3 Rating:
Branch circuits recognized by this article shall be rated in accordance with the maximum permitted ampere rating or setting of the overcurrent device. The rating for other than individual branch circuits (my emphasis) shall be 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amperes.
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Please note that 210.12(B) does not speak of branch circuits that are rated at 15 or 20 amps. It speaks of outlets that are rated at 15 or 20 amps. So if you were to install an ?individual branch circuit? with a 10 amp breaker (210.3 allows this), and even if the branch circuit is thereby rated at 10 amps, you still do not alter the rating of the outlet. But an ?outlet? is defined in terms of a point in space. More practically, an outlet is a box into which you may install (for example) a receptacle, or onto which you may attach (for example) a ceiling light or a smoke detector.
But now I am out of my field, and need help. Is it true that the outlet boxes carry their own ratings? Can you buy an outlet box with a 20 amp rating? For if you run a branch circuit (that is rated at 10 amps) to the outlet box (that is rated 20 amps), and if you then attach a smoke detector to that box, then I believe that 210.12(B) would require AFCI protection. This is not because of the 10 amp branch circuit, but rather because of the 20 amp outlet.
Very good question. Here are three relevant articles:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
210.12(B):
Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
100 (Definitions):
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
210.3 Rating:
Branch circuits recognized by this article shall be rated in accordance with the maximum permitted ampere rating or setting of the overcurrent device. The rating for other than individual branch circuits (my emphasis) shall be 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amperes.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Please note that 210.12(B) does not speak of branch circuits that are rated at 15 or 20 amps. It speaks of outlets that are rated at 15 or 20 amps. So if you were to install an ?individual branch circuit? with a 10 amp breaker (210.3 allows this), and even if the branch circuit is thereby rated at 10 amps, you still do not alter the rating of the outlet. But an ?outlet? is defined in terms of a point in space. More practically, an outlet is a box into which you may install (for example) a receptacle, or onto which you may attach (for example) a ceiling light or a smoke detector.
But now I am out of my field, and need help. Is it true that the outlet boxes carry their own ratings? Can you buy an outlet box with a 20 amp rating? For if you run a branch circuit (that is rated at 10 amps) to the outlet box (that is rated 20 amps), and if you then attach a smoke detector to that box, then I believe that 210.12(B) would require AFCI protection. This is not because of the 10 amp branch circuit, but rather because of the 20 amp outlet.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Charlie,
I've been trying to make the point that outlets do not have voltage and current ratings and that the wording in 210.12 is flawed since the 2002 code change. In the '99 code AFCIs were required for 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp, single phase receptacles. When the '02 code came along an atempt was made to expand the AFCI requirement. This was done by replacing the word receptacle with the word outlet leaving us code wording that is flawed. The intent is that all 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp, single phase brach cicuits that serve dwelling unit outlets have AFCI protection. Why didn't they just say that?
Don
Charlie,
Where do I find a voltage and current rating for a "point in space"(outlet)??? I've never seen an outlet that has a voltage and current rating.
I've been trying to make the point that outlets do not have voltage and current ratings and that the wording in 210.12 is flawed since the 2002 code change. In the '99 code AFCIs were required for 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp, single phase receptacles. When the '02 code came along an atempt was made to expand the AFCI requirement. This was done by replacing the word receptacle with the word outlet leaving us code wording that is flawed. The intent is that all 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp, single phase brach cicuits that serve dwelling unit outlets have AFCI protection. Why didn't they just say that?
Don
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Actually it is not specifying an outlet box, but an outlet, which is defined in Art 100.
Also it specifies in 210.12 that 'ALL BRANCH CIRCUITS' that supply ... this would include the 10 amp protected circuit.
For those who may not have the NEC handy,
OUTLET. A point in the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
UTILIZATION EQUIPMENT. Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating, lighting, or similar purposes.
(from the 2002 NEC)
Pierre
Actually it is not specifying an outlet box, but an outlet, which is defined in Art 100.
Also it specifies in 210.12 that 'ALL BRANCH CIRCUITS' that supply ... this would include the 10 amp protected circuit.
For those who may not have the NEC handy,
OUTLET. A point in the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
UTILIZATION EQUIPMENT. Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating, lighting, or similar purposes.
(from the 2002 NEC)
Pierre
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Pierre,
Is says; "All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets ... ". The rating in the code section applies to the outlet and not to the branch circuit. I have never seen an outlet with a voltage and current rating. If the outlet is not rated at 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere, then AFCI protection is not required by the actual code wording. The CMP's intent is very clear that they want all 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits that serve bedroom outlets to have AFCI protection, but the words do not match the panels intent. The code wording should be changed to match the panel's intent.
Don
Pierre,
Is says; "All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets ... ". The rating in the code section applies to the outlet and not to the branch circuit. I have never seen an outlet with a voltage and current rating. If the outlet is not rated at 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere, then AFCI protection is not required by the actual code wording. The CMP's intent is very clear that they want all 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits that serve bedroom outlets to have AFCI protection, but the words do not match the panels intent. The code wording should be changed to match the panel's intent.
Don
ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Is there a commercially available 10A breaker for a residential panel?
Is there a commercially available 10A breaker for a residential panel?
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Don
I hope that you do not think I like to argue points with you. I actually like the discourse we have, because I know that you think out your responses and know information that I do not know.
I have read your last response and the code section again (over and over) and I believe you are correct. The wording does not match the intent.
Branch circuits are rated (nominal) 120 volts. Devices (receptacles, switches, etc..) are NEMA rated at 125 volts. That I believe is how this wording got crossed up. The NEC wants to protect the 120v 15 & 20 ampere circuits that supply 125 volt devices which are installed at 'outlets'.
The actual wording says - "All branch circuits" ... "that supply 125-volt, single phase, 15-and 20-ampere outlets"
I do not see this as saying 125 volt circuits, I do see how it could easily be confused though.
It should read: All 120-volt 15- and 20-ampere single phase circuits that supply outlets connected to 125 volt rated equipment in dwelling ...
Equipment is defined in Art 100.
Pierre
[ December 06, 2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Don
I hope that you do not think I like to argue points with you. I actually like the discourse we have, because I know that you think out your responses and know information that I do not know.
I have read your last response and the code section again (over and over) and I believe you are correct. The wording does not match the intent.
Branch circuits are rated (nominal) 120 volts. Devices (receptacles, switches, etc..) are NEMA rated at 125 volts. That I believe is how this wording got crossed up. The NEC wants to protect the 120v 15 & 20 ampere circuits that supply 125 volt devices which are installed at 'outlets'.
The actual wording says - "All branch circuits" ... "that supply 125-volt, single phase, 15-and 20-ampere outlets"
I do not see this as saying 125 volt circuits, I do see how it could easily be confused though.
It should read: All 120-volt 15- and 20-ampere single phase circuits that supply outlets connected to 125 volt rated equipment in dwelling ...
Equipment is defined in Art 100.
Pierre
[ December 06, 2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Hmmm so i suppose if i used a 10 amp breaker for my bedroom recepticles then i don't need afci protection----------Forget i said that.
Why not just take the easy way out and put smoke on afci.Usually the smoke in bedroom is just inside the door and near the switch ,so easy to just tap there.I do see one problem that will happen to save money on afci breakers we will be seeing guys loading them to the max.2400 watts devided by 3 per foot = 800 feet of bed rooms,this could cover most 3 or 4 bed homes with 1 breaker.
Do we need to protect the closet light on afci,is the closet a room or is it part of the bedroom?
Hmmm so i suppose if i used a 10 amp breaker for my bedroom recepticles then i don't need afci protection----------Forget i said that.
Why not just take the easy way out and put smoke on afci.Usually the smoke in bedroom is just inside the door and near the switch ,so easy to just tap there.I do see one problem that will happen to save money on afci breakers we will be seeing guys loading them to the max.2400 watts devided by 3 per foot = 800 feet of bed rooms,this could cover most 3 or 4 bed homes with 1 breaker.
Do we need to protect the closet light on afci,is the closet a room or is it part of the bedroom?
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
It is my understanding that the reason for AFCI in bedroom(s) was because of the easily iginitable materails usually found in bedrooms, curtains, bedding, clothing, thus, I would think it prudent to include clothes closets.
I also THINK that the CMP wanted to generate a "Case History" by only requiring the AFCI's in the bedrooms and to also give ( let) the manufactures have some leeway in perfecting the AFCI's.
The GFCI perfection took a long time and is still being perfected as can be verified by the recent (2002?) UL standard .
Why not the same trial and error for the AFCI, which should reduce fires as the GFCI reduced electrocutions.
gwz2
It is my understanding that the reason for AFCI in bedroom(s) was because of the easily iginitable materails usually found in bedrooms, curtains, bedding, clothing, thus, I would think it prudent to include clothes closets.
I also THINK that the CMP wanted to generate a "Case History" by only requiring the AFCI's in the bedrooms and to also give ( let) the manufactures have some leeway in perfecting the AFCI's.
The GFCI perfection took a long time and is still being perfected as can be verified by the recent (2002?) UL standard .
Why not the same trial and error for the AFCI, which should reduce fires as the GFCI reduced electrocutions.
gwz2
Re: Smoke Detectors and AFCI
Vermont started the AFCI a year earlier than the NEC required.
I have been a participant of several BB's and do not recall seeing many Vermont'ers protesting the AFCI's.
It seems most protestors have been since the NEC requirement of Jan 2003.
gwz2
Vermont started the AFCI a year earlier than the NEC required.
I have been a participant of several BB's and do not recall seeing many Vermont'ers protesting the AFCI's.
It seems most protestors have been since the NEC requirement of Jan 2003.
gwz2
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