smoke detectors/arc fault

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

210.12 b all outlets in a bedroom to be arc fault protected...........
outlet def. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equiptment.
As I read it,the smoke detectors must be on an arc fault circuit,AHJ here not requiring this to be..........Any thoughts ???????????????

 

[rich000]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Is your AHJ up to date and using NEC 2002? If they are still on 1999, then they may not require it due to that.

IMO, it is required to put the smokes on an AFCI.

This raises a question of cost vs. quality.

The smokes should be on a dedicated circuit (IMO), therefore the cost of the install goes up vice tying it into a bedroom AFCI.

 

[curt swartz]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Allen,
If you are using the 2002 NEC they would definitely be required to be AFCI protected unless your area has added an amendment to the NEC to not require this which apparently some areas have done.

Rich,
Why do you feel smoke detectors should be on a dedicated circuit? I feel just the opposite. I think they should be required to be connected to a general lighting circuit. If they are on a dedicated circuit they homeowner will not have any indication if this circuit gets turned off or fails.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Rich,

The smokes should be on a dedicated circuit ...

This is prohibited by some local codes. These codes require that the smokes be connected to a general use lighting circuit so that if the circuit is off the occupant will get it restored. Yes, I know that many smokes have back up battery power, but the most common reaction the intermittent beep of the low battery alarm is to remove the battery.
Don

 

[buketmouth]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

a,

It was my understanding afci was designed to support extra protection on receptacles. An sd doesn't have the hoemowner access for power supply, hence the reasoning behind local revisions to this code. Also be aware that afci is not required on any structure that was permitted before 1-1-03. ???

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

We are under the 2002 nec,There is no real addendum to the code in regards to smoke detectors just hasn`t come up yet I guess most take outlets to be receptacles

 

[iwire]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

What is the benefit of a dedicated circuit? (AFCI or not)

What would be the down side of sharing a circuit, the smokes are certainly a minimal load.

As Don said typical reaction to the chirp is to take batteries out, if on a general lighting circuit it will be looked into and in the mean time you have the batteries.

 

[bill addiss]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Inspectors here have always recommended that Smoke Detectors not be on a dedicated circuit. I agree with that opinion.

Some people have asked that they be on a separate circuit so they could be turned off if there was a problem or they became annoying. This mentality is why we were forced to go to line voltage SDs in the first place. It just doesn't sound like a good idea IMHO.

Bill

 

[roger]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Is anyone aware of a GFCI device that could serve all the circuits in a dwelling unit?

Roger

 

[curt swartz]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Allen

What kind of smoke detectors do you use? I know BRK and Firex smoke detectors do not chirp on failure of AC power. I doubt UL would permit them to have such a feature. Every time the power went off the homeowners would be forced to remove the batteries rendering the detector useless. The only time they should chirp is if the batteries are low or missing.

 

[roger]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

NFPA 72 11.6.1 Smoke and heat alarms shall be powered by one of the following.

(1) A comercial light and power source along with a secondary battery source that is capable of operating the device for at least 24 hours in the normal condition followed by 4 minutes of alarm.

(2)If a commercial light and power source is not normally available, a noncommercial ac power source along with a secondary battery source that is capable of operating the device for at least 7 days in the normal condition followed by 4 minutes of alarm.

(3)A nonrechargeable, nonreplaceable primary battery that is capable of operating the device for at least 10 years in the normal condition follwed by 4 minutes of alarm, followed by 7 days of trouble.

Roger

 

[george t. everett]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

I agree with Curt, the smokes should not be on a dedicated circuit. If on a dedicated circuit and the home owner knows that, they are apt to shut the breaker off when the smokes go off when they are cooking and fail to turn it back on. The New York board of Fireunderwriters, the inspection agency here does not require the smokes to be AFCI protected.
Why? I don't know.

 

[bill addiss]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Is anyone aware of a GFCI device that could serve all the circuits in a dwelling unit?

Roger,

My understanding is that a 'Whole House' GFCI would not be a desireable thing to have at this point. To be effective at protecting persons from injury it must have a relatively low trip point. Products are manufactured to certain standards, but they do have a certain amount of allowable leakage. This GFCI will see the combined leakage of everything that's connected to it and would likely see a bit of nuisance tripping, which would shut down everything.

Bill

 

[hurk27]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

I agree Bill as there is allot of things in our houses that have to be cleaned up (electricly) before these could be used, and appliances that tend to produce voltage spikes, voltage drops would have to be address on an item by item base to elemnate the problems that they might cause.

This is also going to be a concern when trying to apply a whole house AFCI because of the same problems with the GFP inside of the AFCI

[ April 06, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[roger deas]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Bill and Wayne, I agree. I saw this refered to in a technical document, but I am not aware of any such device. I was wondering if anyone else might know of one.

Roger

 

[tom baker]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Recommended resource: Undercurrents and Overcurrents by Earl Roberts. This text gives the history of the GFCI and the AFCI. It discusses whole house protection. I got my copy from the IAEI.

 

[roger]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Thanks Tom! Now I've got to go buy another book. :roll:

Roger

 

[bill addiss]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Tom,

You're not going to tell us what it says about whole house GFCI protection?

c'mon,

Bill

 

[roger]

Re: smoke detectors/arc fault

Bill, I'll share my book with you when I get it.

Roger