Smoke Relocate

[mstrlucky74]

Have a smoke detector mounted in drop ceiling with slab above(guessing distance from ceiling to slab about 3'. They want smoke detector to be relocated to bottom of slab above. Two questions.

1. Limited drawings but trying to find out of ceiling is being removed and now its exposed. Could the smoke be concealed by ceiling?? Then you would need some sort of remote test switch or LED indicator in view, correct?
2. What do you think would be involved to do this relocate? There probably isn't enough cable to extend it to the new location. If there ceiling is remaining I guess you could put a box with a terminal strip right above ceiling where it was mounted and extend wire up to new location( no splicing allowed) or maybe you have to pull the wires back to a location then mount a terminal block or even pull back to the other devices and run new cable. It's a class A system. with return loop.

Thanks.

 

[gadfly56]

Have a smoke detector mounted in drop ceiling with slab above(guessing distance from ceiling to slab about 3'. They want smoke detector to be relocated to bottom of slab above. Two questions.

1. Limited drawings but trying to find out of ceiling is being removed and now its exposed. Could the smoke be concealed by ceiling?? Then you would need some sort of remote test switch or LED indicator in view, correct?
2. What do you think would be involved to do this relocate? There probably isn't enough cable to extend it to the new location. If there ceiling is remaining I guess you could put a box with a terminal strip right above ceiling where it was mounted and extend wire up to new location( no splicing allowed) or maybe you have to pull the wires back to a location then mount a terminal block or even pull back to the other devices and run new cable. It's a class A system. with return loop.

Thanks.

Since you say "slab" I assume the space above the current drop ceiling is considered non-combustible. If they are opening up the ceiling you will need to move the smokes up to the slab. If not, I don't know what they are thinking since if the ceiling remains or is reinstalled, you won't have smoke detection in the space that contains the fuel load (office furniture, carpet, etc). Then you'd need a second level of protection at the bottom side of the drop ceiling. If the boxes are currently installed in the drop ceiling, using "T"-bars for example, and the ceiling goes away you'll have to re-run everything from the point the circuit enters the space. If the ceiling remains you can run a feed an return to the new location on the slab using these:



The terminal block and bracket can be purchase separately, so if you already have a 4x4 deep box that the existing device is attached to you don't have to buy the whole set up.

 

[mstrlucky74]

Since you say "slab" I assume the space above the current drop ceiling is considered non-combustible. If they are opening up the ceiling you will need to move the smokes up to the slab. If not, I don't know what they are thinking since if the ceiling remains or is reinstalled, you won't have smoke detection in the space that contains the fuel load (office furniture, carpet, etc). Then you'd need a second level of protection at the bottom side of the drop ceiling. If the boxes are currently installed in the drop ceiling, using "T"-bars for example, and the ceiling goes away you'll have to re-run everything from the point the circuit enters the space. If the ceiling remains you can run a feed an return to the new location on the slab using these:

View attachment 18958

The terminal block and bracket can be purchase separately, so if you already have a 4x4 deep box that the existing device is attached to you don't have to buy the whole set up.

Thanks. The box the device is mounted to would still be needed....a new 4x4 box for the terminal block would be needed, no? Found out the ceiling is being removed and will be exposed slab. Weird...the fa riser shows separate circuits for each one of these smoke in each IDF roomswhich are stacked one on top of each other. The riser also shows these fed from a fire alarm transponder...only know of FACP's and DGP's...:dunce::?

 

[gadfly56]

Thanks. The box the device is mounted to would still be needed....a new 4x4 box for the terminal block would be needed, no? Found out the ceiling is being removed and will be exposed slab. Weird...the fa riser shows separate circuits for each one of these smoke in each IDF roomswhich are stacked one on top of each other. The riser also shows these fed from a fire alarm transponder...only know of FACP's and DGP's...:dunce::?

"Transponder" is a term Siemens uses. Is this a Siemens FireFinder XLS project?

 

[mstrlucky74]

"Transponder" is a term Siemens uses. Is this a Siemens FireFinder XLS project?

I'll check..

 

[gadfly56]

Thanks. The box the device is mounted to would still be needed....a new 4x4 box for the terminal block would be needed, no? Found out the ceiling is being removed and will be exposed slab. Weird...the fa riser shows separate circuits for each one of these smoke in each IDF roomswhich are stacked one on top of each other. The riser also shows these fed from a fire alarm transponder...only know of FACP's and DGP's...:dunce::?

If the current box is 4x4 deep, then no. That zinc-coated bracket sitting inside the 4x4 in the photo is available separately as is the terminal block. If you still need to mount a device on that existing box then yes, you'll need the whole kit.

 

[ryant35]

"Transponder" is a term Siemens uses. Is this a Siemens FireFinder XLS project?

Notifier and Simplex also use transponders.

 

[gadfly56]

Notifier and Simplex also use transponders.

They use transponders, but Siemens actually calls them "transponder panels". Simplex only uses the word "transponder" to describe its line of remote annunciators.

 

[ryant35]

They use transponders, but Siemens actually calls them "transponder panels". Simplex only uses the word "transponder" to describe its line of remote annunciators.

The data sheet for the 4100ES MINIPLEX Transponders refers to them as transponders... I'm posting this from my desk at a Simplex office.

 

[gadfly56]

The data sheet for the 4100ES MINIPLEX Transponders refers to them as transponders... I'm posting this from my desk at a Simplex office.

And the MINIPLEX Transponder is...a remote annuciator. Just what I said. If you order an enclosure from Siemens containing the components of what many others refer to as Data Gathering Panels, you order a medium or large enclosure "TRANSPONDER DOOR - BLACK", P/N 500-633768 or -69. These are panels that have everything in them except a CPU. The programming software recognizes the existence of the enclosure, but treats everything as a single system.

 

[ryant35]

And the MINIPLEX Transponder is...a remote annuciator. Just what I said. If you order an enclosure from Siemens containing the components of what many others refer to as Data Gathering Panels, you order a medium or large enclosure "TRANSPONDER DOOR - BLACK", P/N 500-633768 or -69. These are panels that have everything in them except a CPU. The programming software recognizes the existence of the enclosure, but treats everything as a single system.

A Miniplex Transponder can have an annunciator. Since they are modular you can add power supplies, amplifiers, and SLC loops in them.