So in conclusion

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joeyww12000

joeyww12000

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Thanks for all the posts on my question this week.......so in conclusion have we agreed a GEC cannot be both a EGC/GEC and that all GEC's must terminate in the place the service neutral/grounded conductor is bonded?
 
joeyww12000 said:
Thanks for all the posts on my question this week.......so in conclusion have we agreed a GEC cannot be both a EGC/GEC and that all GEC's must terminate in the place the service neutral/grounded conductor is bonded?
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Yes, the meter base or the first disconnect except at a remote building. At a remote structure you need to run an egc and also drive the necessary ground rods. The GEC will get connected to the EGC at this panel and the neutrals will be separated.
 
Now I'm really confused. The last discussion I saw on this I thought the conclusion was that you could use a gec as a egc so long as it was sized per table 250.66. I may not have caught the final posts though.
 
joeyww12000 said:
Thanks for all the posts on my question this week.......so in conclusion have we agreed a GEC cannot be both a EGC/GEC and that all GEC's must terminate in the place the service neutral/grounded conductor is bonded?
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I don't agree with either of those statements.
 
So in conclusion a egc can also serve as a gec as long as it is sized per 250.66 right? So basically you could run all gec's to mdp to a buss not bonded to neutral, then take gec/egc sized per 250.66 to sd where neutral is bonded. Just want to make sure I'm clear on this.
 
It would be somewhat rare to have a case where you could use a single conductor as both an EGC and a GEC, but if you comply with all of the rules for both there is no reason why you can't.
 
OK, just read the original thread.
Seems to me that if:
the EGC from service disconnect to MDP is sized enough for 250.66;
is landed on a busbar with lugs conforming to 250.64(F)(3) 2008;
is run in enclosures and raceways conforming to 250.64(E) (bond both ends);
it may satisfy everything.
 
Volta said:
OK. I must have missed the thread the OP refered to, but the is at least one way to use a GEC as an EGC.

250.130(C)(1 or 2).
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I will agree with you on that one, In that case it 'shall be permitted' to use the GEC for the

EGC, that would lead me to believe that otherwise it is 'not permitted'.
 
Volta said:
OK, just read the original thread.
Seems to me that if:
the EGC from service disconnect to MDP is sized enough for 250.66;
is landed on a busbar with lugs conforming to 250.64(F)(3) 2008;
is run in enclosures and raceways conforming to 250.64(E) (bond both ends);
it may satisfy everything.
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OK, this is a NEC Forum, right ?

Let's say these conductors are insulated. ( that would be normal ).

How are you going to identify these conductors in the Main Disconnect ? If you put green

marking tape on them, then they are EGC's and you don't have a GEC. If you land them on

the neutral lug without any markings, then you don't have an EGC.
 
benaround said:
OK, this is a NEC Forum, right ?

Let's say these conductors are insulated. ( that would be normal ).

How are you going to identify these conductors in the Main Disconnect ? If you put green

marking tape on them, then they are EGC's and you don't have a GEC. If you land them on

the neutral lug without any markings, then you don't have an EGC.
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As far as I know or can tell - there is no marking criteria for GEC's - so long as it is not white or orange.
 
Yeah, my post was going to end with something like "The only problem would be identification, if bare ok, but can't have a GEC marked green. But my posts are so slow 'cause I try to find references to list or at least be sure myself, and whaddayaknow, 250.119 says not to use green for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors. Doesn't say not to use it for GEC's, just circuit conductors. Learnin' all the time!
So I figured the installation could be compliant if everything else.:smile:
 
benaround said:
OK, this is a NEC Forum, right ?

Let's say these conductors are insulated. ( that would be normal ).

How are you going to identify these conductors in the Main Disconnect ? If you put green

marking tape on them, then they are EGC's and you don't have a GEC. If you land them on

the neutral lug without any markings, then you don't have an EGC.
Click to expand...

Frank, up until the 05 cycle this would have been true but, the wording of 250.119 changed in 05 and the only conductors prohibited to have a green marking now are as Volta said, the ungrounded and grounded conductors, this would allow the GEC to also be green.

Roger
 
Roger, I've been reading the definitions for the last 15 mins. and I can't see where the

GEC would not be considered a grounded conductor. Roger, I'm having a problem with the

concept that the GEC and the EGC can be the same conductor, by design, and if I can't

prove that ( to myself ) than I'm going to have to accept that they can. There seem to be

hints everywhere for my cause but I need the 'black and white ' of it. Also, thx for the post.
 
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