So much for support,...!

[76nemo]

Had a e-call tonight. I had a new ceiling fan put in for a lady on Sunday. She call's tonight and says she has no power on a circuit which I knew to be on a different leg of the service. I get there and all is working fine. She explained what had happened. This went out, that went out, this worked fine, this went out,....so on and so on. The circuit she initially lost was the outlet for her oxygen. I got there and she couldn't apologize enough. "Everything is working fine now Brad, the problem is gone."

"No, it's not maam" What exactly occured? She explained in detail and then I knew she had a lost neutral somewhere. This was a mobile home service. I checked all the neutral connections at the panel, and all were tight. I unplugged her oxygen machine and performed a loop impedance test along with some adjacent circuits. As soon as I put a 15A load on the recep for the oxygen service, sh*t starts a dimming and flashing! Loop impedance showed 1.12 ohms for the neutral. I checked both legs at the panel and got zip. I checked the main disco and got 247. I went back inside and I had both legs. I cut all of the circuits besides the fridge, and minimal lighting. I go back outside and I found zip L-L. One lost leg. I go back inside and found 247 L-L. Switch on a few circuits and find the same leg lost. Back outside I go, with no additional loads, I found I had 247 line and load side of the main disco. I call the grid and they tell me because I had one leg to supply her oxygen, there wasn't an emergency. Okay maam, the main will also not cut loose, I DO have an emergency. Upon my initial call I had to go through 2 minutes of automated messaging to connect to an emergency line, when I find the extension's first prompt to ask for English or Spanish . I have what may be an emergency here. Upon reaching an operator, she tells me it is NOT a REAL emergercy because it sounds like one leg is still constant so I can find a circuit where I could place her oxygen supply on! I told her,..."Maam, I have no main disco here, I DO have an emergency!!!!"

The grid comes and tells me to fully load all the circuits I can, and I hesitate. They respond that we are now a two man team and there is nothing to worry about, go ahead and load it up! The trailer was all 230V heat. They said to turn it all on including the oven and any other heavy loads. Not too pleased about this, I went ahead and did so. Upon doing this, they ran back in and yelled,..."Cut it now!!!"

Come to find out the main disco was bad, but would drop a leg depending on what was loaded. I had both legs line side and would drop one intermittenly depending. The main sizzled when I loaded it up with the resi's heat and stove.

Imagine having a serious fault and having to go through 5 steps of an automated machine to get tech support! They told me service was spread so thin, it may be 24 hours before the linemen would get there! Glad the place didn't burn down!

I am going to spend a lengthy amount of time with a letter for them. I am new to the line service here in NY, and to say the least, I am NOT very pleased!!!!!!

On top of that, it was an old MidWest main and it's no where to be found around here. A new panel will go in tomorrow.

Fr*ckin' fustrated

 

[emahler]

so...where was the problem? in the trailer? at the meter stack? POCO's issue?

 

[76nemo]

The problem was the main breaker. It would drop one leg and then the other, but not utilizing a min/max feature, the problem was initially dumbfounding after checking the inside panel and the outside main disco 4-5 times.
The main would drop a leg w/o adding additional loads. It was VERY intermittent. I had thought the problem was at the utilities can with all of the wind. It WAS a learning experience. Definetly not a problem I had seen before.
I may have pinpointed it using two meters and the min/max feature. The outside main sizzled when I loaded the service to a max.. I wasn't about to do this alone by myself. It wasn't until the grid showed up and suggested I load the service to the max., and than they found the outside main sizzling

The lady told me the problem disappeared after I arrived, and I then told her, "No maam, it didn't."

 

[ultramegabob]

In a true emergency, I would pull the meter myself. Im not going to go through the automated phone B.S. while a panel melts down.

 

[mxslick]

Are you sure about that?

Are you sure about that?

In a true emergency, I would pull the meter myself. Im not going to go through the automated phone B.S. while a panel melts down.

Pulling a meter under any kind of fault condition is extremely dangerous and the meter can explode or draw a huge arc right in your face. I have had both happen to me and it is not fun.

Better to grab a ladder, some gloves and cut the drop hot lines first.

Oh, hold the line a sec, the OP is talking about mobile home service, which is in all likelihood underground.

I still wouldn't pull that meter, but I do now ask the masses, what would another (reasonably safe) option be in that case?

 

[busman]

Aren't the hot drop lines going to arc just like the meter jaws? Now you're up on a ladder?

 

[crossman]

Woah, seems it would be safer to pull the meter under load rather than cut the drops under load?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Why not open the main first, check for voltage, if no voltage remove the meter?

 

[76nemo]

The main wouldn't open, and they STILL told me it was a non-emergency!
I didn't yank the meter because I was chasing my tail under minimal load, but when I called for a disco, they told me it could be up to 24hrs.! I am still in the midst of writing a very lengthy letter, and possibly posting it publically.....

I never even tried cutting the main until the last steps. I wanted to leave the line and sort it out from there. I loaded the feed up with the 230V heat, and that is when they came in running, yelling,...."CUT IT NOW!!!!!!!!"

So,......."No emergency there, ....eh????"

I HATE POLITICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[brian john]

Several weeks ago we had an emergency with a 4000 Amp bolted pressure switch and we needed an outage immedatly. The utility emergency call number was USELESS, sent us in circles and then finally it would disconnect us. One of the supers for the GC's had a boss (large national firm) who knew someone high up in the power company and got the ball rolling.

 

[quogueelectric]

The main wouldn't open, and they STILL told me it was a non-emergency!
I didn't yank the meter because I was chasing my tail under minimal load, but when I called for a disco, they told me it could be up to 24hrs.! I am still in the midst of writing a very lengthy letter, and possibly posting it publically.....

I never even tried cutting the main until the last steps. I wanted to leave the line and sort it out from there. I loaded the feed up with the 230V heat, and that is when they came in running, yelling,...."CUT IT NOW!!!!!!!!"

So,......."No emergency there, ....eh????"

I HATE POLITICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey you cant live forever you big chicken. That is the problem everyone wants to live forever.

 

[mxslick]

Woah, seems it would be safer to pull the meter under load rather than cut the drops under load?

I will concede that cutting the drop isn't necessarily the safest option, but:

Since most meters can be difficult to pull in a clean, rapid motion, (which would minimize arcing) cutting the drop (which with a good pair of cutters would result in a fast, clean break IMHO) would be safer. Of course the odds are the cutters will end up the worse for wear...:grin:

Edited to add: And pulling a meter on most commercial buildings would be exceptionally dangerous (A lot are "driven" by CT's which will develop extremely high voltage when open circuited) and it won't cut the power.


Busman:
I have watched POCO workers cut a few drops under emergency conditions and the resulting arc was not that big, especially in comparison to the blasts I took pulling meters. Lesser of the evils, again IMHO.

No matter how you slice it, killing power under fault conditions is a very dangerous and dicey game no matter how you do it or who does it.

 

[iwire]

I will concede that cutting the drop isn't necessarily the safest option,

That happens to be just what some power companies require before pulling a dwelling unit meter.

 

[mxslick]

That happens to be just what some power companies require before pulling a dwelling unit meter.

And what I found out the hard way is why that has become a requirement. :grin:

The two hits I took pulling meters "live" (one was on a service upgrade, meter was stuck and I broke the line lug supports; first one was an emergency situation at a friend's house (Zinsco buss meltdown, no main) and both arc blasts were impressive and I was very lucky to not get hurt) taught me to think before I act.

A while back a cinema I was visiting had their transformer in the booth electrical room go into meltdown, they wanted me to go throw the breaker to it (IIRC 400amp, 480v 3ph) I told them no freakin way. Call the FD and their regular electrician. FD got there and evacuated the building and just as the electrician pulled up the transformer went ballastic and tripped that brreaker, the boom from it and the arcing of the transformer took a few years off everyone's life. I found out later that the breaker was damaged beyond repair by the fault. (Bad coordination in the original install 25+ years ago combined with POCO upgrades to the area sent the available short circuit current too high for the old switchgear to handle.)

 

[Rampage_Rick]

Woah, seems it would be safer to pull the meter under load rather than cut the drops under load?

New product idea: Glorified toilet plunger with 10-foot wood shaft and a D-grip handle. Heck, just stick shovel handles in the machine that puts the threads on the plunger dowels.

Quick push to seat it, quick pull to open.

Ka-ching!

 

[mxslick]

Sorry Rampage Rick..

Sorry Rampage Rick..

..someone already beat you to that idea, there is a device designed to "safely" pull meters when hot (but I would venture NOT under a fault.)

HERE'S THE LINK

A great idea, but in the cases I mentioned, would it have saved me from the arc blast? Maybe. But it would help you avoid breaking the meter glass/plastic cover. :grin:

Edited to add: If I got back into service changes again I would get one. For less than $150.00 it is cheap insurance and makes you look cool when you use it.