Solar battery in closet?

M

Mejakola

Member
Location
Amarillo Texas
Occupation
Industrial Electrician
Hey guys, I am a Mike Holt student and have been working through my ultimate library. I currently am not working in the solar industry but have in the past. I wanted to reach out and ask about location requirements for battery storage systems. If I am reading 690 and 706 correctly, there is not currently anything prohibiting the installation of a battery backup inside of a closet or other location restrictions for one/two family dwellings. Can your team confirm this for me? If this is the case I would like to go through the process of making a P.I. to get this added into the code. I ask because a contractor I previously worked for did this against my recommendation. However, my thought process is if we can't put a panel or incandescent bulb in a closet, we probably shouldn’t put a battery system there either. If it is listed elsewhere in the code, I feel that it should at least be referenced in 706. I would appreciate any thoughts or input on this.
 
The fire code and/or residential code will prohibit this, if the jurisdiction is at all recent on adopting newer codes. ESS cannot be installed in any habitable areas of a dwelling or any rooms that open directly to such areas. Fire separation from the dwelling is required.

CHAPTER 3 BUILDING PLANNING - 2024 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE (IRC)

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.
codes.iccsafe.org codes.iccsafe.org

There is a nominal exception for products listed "for use in habitable spaces" but AFAIK no such thing actually exists.
 
Honestly, this is kind of a sticking point with adopted codes vs NFPA codes in general.

You will have to research your local residential code or commercial codes and it will most likely look like NFPA 855.

If you are talking about installing them in closets for other than residential, in areas where people are not living, than there is currently no restrictions that I know of. NFPA 855 actually marks closets as an approved location provided with AHJ approval / possible retrofitting to the room's fire rating.

Most codes break down into different categories.
1) Places where people live / sleep (most restrictive - generally speaking)
2) places were the general public visits (theatres, auditoriums, etc. medium restrictive)
3) places where trained employees visit. (least restrictive)

For the most part, commercial and industrial locations fit into that 3rd category and the codes are less restrictive where it is just a place of employment. There is some discussion to be had on if it is more dangerous or less dangerous to life, persons, or property, but generally speaking, the codes treat it differently.
 
jaggedben said:
There is a nominal exception for products listed "for use in habitable spaces" but AFAIK no such thing actually exists.
Click to expand...

I was at a IAEI conference where a UL guy said it is a golden goose listing that nobody will probably ever meet. They were required to include that classification. Or maybe it was advocated for, I can't remember.
 
The NEC is not the only document that applies. There may be restrictions in the building code or instructions, as well as NFPA 855.
As a for myself, I would never install any battery storage in a dwelling or attached garage and would never have an EV in an attached garage.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The NEC is not the only document that applies. There may be restrictions in the building code or instructions, as well as NFPA 855.
As a for myself, I would never install any battery storage in a dwelling or attached garage and would never have an EV in an attached garage.
Click to expand...
Having seen some UL9540A test results for some lithium iron phosphate ESS I would call that a gross overreaction. But by all means, you do you. Might want to remove all the electrical wiring and gas pipes in your home, too, if it gives you peace of mind. I'm seriously very glad we got rid of our old gas oven that blew its door open a couple times when the igniter malfunctioned. I was 100x more scared of that thing than any ESS I've ever installed, and 10000x more scared of it than an LFP ESS.
 
wwhitney said:
To my knowledge, the per unit fire rate for EVs is no more than the rate for gasoline cars.
Click to expand...
It is not, but the heat production and the toxic and explosive gasses that are released are much worse. I have evaluated the risks, and an EV in an attached garage is beyond MY risk tolerance.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
It is not, but the heat production and the toxic and explosive gasses that are released are much worse.
Click to expand...
That's plausible. Risk = probability * negative result, so even if the probability is not higher, if the negative result is worse, the risk may be higher.
don_resqcapt19 said:
I have evaluated the risks, and an EV in an attached garage is beyond MY risk tolerance.
Click to expand...
Do you have any data you can point me towards on the relative probabilities and the relative magnitude of the negative results?

Thanks, Wayne
 
jaggedben said:
Having seen some UL9540A test results for some lithium iron phosphate ESS I would call that a gross overreaction. But by all means, you do you. Might want to remove all the electrical wiring and gas pipes in your home, too, if it gives you peace of mind. I'm seriously very glad we got rid of our old gas oven that blew its door open a couple times when the igniter malfunctioned. I was 100x more scared of that thing than any ESS I've ever installed, and 10000x more scared of it than an LFP ESS.
Click to expand...
It is the rapid explosive spread of some battery fires that I see as an issue. All of my power tool batteries are in a steel enclosure unless they are being used, and the risk from smaller batteries is greater than that from the EV batteries.
Plus I am old enough that it is unlikely that I will buy another vehicle of any type.
 
wwhitney said:
Do you have any data you can point me towards on the relative probabilities and the relative magnitude of the negative results?
Click to expand...
No data, just video from various battery fires, both EV, e-bike, and smaller tool battery fires. Mostly posted on fire fighting sites.
 
jaggedben said:
Bet none of those were LFP. Probably all nickel-manganese-cobalt or similar types.
Click to expand...
probably...but no matter what, it is not something I would do.

Just like I would never live in a building with CSST gas piping or light weight structural building components.
I do have trusses, but all of those nail plates that fail within 5 to 10 minutes of exposure to fire are covered by 2x6 lumber and through bolted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top