Solve This Service Call

[hambone1216]

Perhaps these kind of appliances should come with pig tail installed from factory.
Then the bend radius and equipment termination could be controlled in factories.
Let end user install cord cap, or change the receptacle to match.

Of course that may just shift problem to another area in system.


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[Little Bill]

Perhaps these kind of appliances should come with pig tail installed from factory.
Then the bend radius and equipment termination could be controlled in factories.
Let end user install cord cap, or change the receptacle to match.

Of course that may just shift problem to another area in system.


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Mfg don't install pigtails/cords on ranges or dryers as they have no idea if the end user will have a 3-wire or 4-wire circuit.

 

[LarryFine]

Mfg don't install pigtails/cords on ranges or dryers as they have no idea if the end user will have a 3-wire or 4-wire circuit.

Right, the cordset should be chosen, and the appliance's bonding jumper wired, to match the existing receptacle and conductors, not "change the receptacle" to match.

 

[480sparky]

Mfg don't install pigtails/cords on ranges or dryers as they have no idea if the end user will have a 3-wire or 4-wire circuit.

As well as does it need a 6' cord, or will a 4' suffice?

 

[LarryFine]

As well as does it need a 6' cord, or will a 4' suffice?

And "Am I gonna be able to get all of that cord to fit behind the range and get the range as tight to the wall as the customer wants it?" :rant:

 

[480sparky]

And "Am I gonna be able to get all of that cord to fit behind the range and get the range as tight to the wall as the customer wants it?" :rant:

Take the drawer out of the bottom. Problem solved. You're welcome. :lol:

 

[kwired]

As you probably already know, the exact reason for four wire cords now, and four wire once it leaves the service disconnect!

Actually we required separate neutral and grounding conductors long time ago for basically same reasons but for some reason had a few exemptions from that rule up until 1996 NEC for ranges and dryers and 2005 (or maybe 2008 can't recall which) for feeders to separate buildings.

 

[hillbilly1]

Actually we required separate neutral and grounding conductors long time ago for basically same reasons but for some reason had a few exemptions from that rule up until 1996 NEC for ranges and dryers and 2005 (or maybe 2008 can't recall which) for feeders to separate buildings.

I know it was originally exempted due to the high cost of copper, then grandfathered in after that for existing installations.

 

[kwired]

I know it was originally exempted due to the high cost of copper, then grandfathered in after that for existing installations.

I heard claims it was due to WWII and the need for copper to support the war, also heard stories that said had nothing to do with that, which I can also believe as I don't think electric ranges were all that common until the 1950's and electric clothes dryers maybe even later than that.

 

[qcroanoke]

But then again, QC is seeming to be a thing of the past... :weeping:

It used to be QC was the final word. Not anymore, If management and production whine enough it goes out the door. But wait for it the go wrong, see who gets the blame.....QC.....

 

[hbiss]

I heard claims it was due to WWII and the need for copper to support the war, also heard stories that said had nothing to do with that, which I can also believe as I don't think electric ranges were all that common until the 1950's and electric clothes dryers maybe even later than that.

Doesn't look like electric ranges became popular until after WWII. Also think about how many homes back then (and before) had the service capacity to supply something other than a simple hot plate. Also, what utilities could provide ample services except in larger population areas?

-Hal

 

[kwired]

Doesn't look like electric ranges became popular until after WWII. Also think about how many homes back then (and before) had the service capacity to supply something other than a simple hot plate. Also, what utilities could provide ample services except in larger population areas?

-Hal

I'm sure things were different where you are at compared to where I am as well. The farm houses here were not seeing any utility supplied power until 1940's. Some may have had wiring installed before then but were using wind chargers and batteries and mostly only supplied some lighting.

 

[hbiss]

The creation of the REA back in the 40's was credited with promoting the sales of electric ranges but I have a hard time understanding how that utility power did more than supply basic needs such as lighting and receptacles.

Was it intended to supply heavy machinery like pumps and other farm equipment initially?

-Hal

 

[Hv&Lv]

The creation of the REA back in the 40's was credited with promoting the sales of electric ranges but I have a hard time understanding how that utility power did more than supply basic needs such as lighting and receptacles.

Was it intended to supply heavy machinery like pumps and other farm equipment initially?

-Hal

No...
it’s like anything else, you have to crawl before you can walk.
the coops started building lines and talking to everyone during construction and asking them if they wanted some of this new power that was being built.
many offered incentives such as installation of stoves or incentives of 50kWh a month for 6 months for a dryer.
once revenue builds and loads increase, you do upgrades to allow for more growth.

the original distribution wire was a #6 hard Johnny in our area. But starting out at 7200 volts the lines could stretch miles. before voltage drop became an issue.

we have a letter in our office where someone sent in their bill back in the 40’s with a note that read, “could you get our power fixed? It’s been out since last Tuesday”

 

[kwired]

The creation of the REA back in the 40's was credited with promoting the sales of electric ranges but I have a hard time understanding how that utility power did more than supply basic needs such as lighting and receptacles.

Was it intended to supply heavy machinery like pumps and other farm equipment initially?

-Hal

I'd also have to say no simply because nobody ever had those items before when they first got power on their farm, and for the most part there wasn't much for said items being marketed to farmers at the time either. That don't mean they didn't start showing up after the farms were powered up, but then you still had to have people willing to buy them. Many farmers at the time were used to doing things a certain way and not so eager to see changes, especially if they had to shell out some money to do so. Even newer diesel, gas powered machinery didn't always get put to use until they saw a potential return on the investment. Now today there is so much technology in the most modern farming equipment, makes the gadgets in our homes or cars look like toys.

 

[Nuber]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Now here's the kicker. I took to cover off the j-box on the stove........... well, let me rephrase that: I forced the cover off the j-box on the stove.........

Here's what I found:

One connection had melted and the bolt came in contact with the cover. Not only shorted out, but welded itself to the cover.

And, as you can see, both connections have done the same thing. Look at the right side.

It had the same thing happen, and there's proof of this on the cover itself:

Side question - So why was there still a bonding jumper installed from N to G in the range if it is a 4 wire cord? Or is the picture misleading me?

Appliance installers and homeowners just shouldn't install appliances unless they have factory installed cords.

 

[480sparky]

Side question - So why was there still a bonding jumper installed from N to G in the range if it is a 4 wire cord? Or is the picture misleading me?

Appliance installers and homeowners just shouldn't install appliances unless they have factory installed cords.

It's not. It's just pushed down below the terminal block.

 

[NKH Kris]

Among other things, I was an electricians mate in the USCG. My last duty station was Base Cape May in the Facilities Engineering Division Electric Shop ( Public Works ) The shop was ran by a civilian, Len, who was a retired E-8 electrician and WW2 vet. He was a Gov't employed electrician at the Navy Yard before working at the base.
One of the people I met, Ted was a civilian electrical engineering technician who worked in the offices. He was an Imo Jima Marine WW2 vet as well.

One of his signature comments to us young guys was to watch out for those "I- squared- Rs" Loose connections and the heat that they created.

I've seen a lot of burnt connections in large HP electric motor "pecker-heads" where the installers had used the large Blue or Grey wire nuts on the motor lead make-ups, I would have to repair them, my choice was to use "split-bolt" connectors with name-brand hi quality rubber and vinyl-plastic tape to finish them up.