Some you win, some you LOSE

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sparky76

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This one it looks like I lost. Here's my sob story. Had a 100A to 200A subpanel upgrade in a six meter 600A comm. switchboard w/ no main breaker or shutoff. I had not done this type of comm. work for a long time, to be honest I may have never done an upgrade on an existing to remain commercial switchboard ever, just entire new swichgear. the POCO would only shut it down on sunday and the planned outage cost the building owner $2400. I found the breaker that I needed and got the rest of the material together. When I got the switchboard open on Sun. I realized that I had overlooked a critical component- the meter socket which I hadnt inspected before the outage because it was behind a POCO sealed section.

I used all my resources for a Sunday, but I was unable to track down the 200A meter socket that i needed. Whoops. So I upgraded the jumpers and did everything else that I could and closed it back up. As a man of honesty of course i told the GC that there was missing link and still work to be done. BTW, none of the equipment that justified the subpanel upgrade has been hooked up. A planned outage has been scheduled for another Sun. and I just got the bill for it over the fax. Although I will only need 1-2 hrs, it looks like the outage fee could be another $2400.00 My proposal/contract included a clause for unexpected conditions, but I'm afraid of 1of 2 things if I don't man up and pay it. 1.the GC will withhold it from my final pay anyways, 2. If I fight I'll lose the GC (which may be true anyways after this job and the fact that 2 of my 3 contacts have left the company).

Having to pay for this planned outage will absolutely put me in the red on this part of the job, and the rest of it hasn't been a windfall either. Anywho, what do you guys think??
 
Ouch. That's what I always worried about when bidding jobs. I was on one that I was getting T&M and the GC was crying the blues. He was in such a hurry to get the bid in that he had over looked 12 solid wood interior doors, somewheres around a $12,000 mistake.
 
1. I would first try to talk to the Utility Company, they may be able to help you out since the meter socket was behind a sealed door.

2. forward the bill to the GC. You might not get it, but you definitely won't get it if you don't bill for it.

3. If he chokes on the full price, try splitting it with the GC and the building owner.

You're in a tough spot, so good luck with it!
 
Romexking-The GC just sent ME the bill for the scheduled outage to change the meter socket, but I am going to give the utility planner a call. I wouldnt say that it was behind a locked (as in a padlock) section but it did have a utility seal on it.

I know that the building owner won't pay it, the GC and I were both left w/ a little egg on our face when he found out about this. The owner already paid $2400 for the first outage. I tried to convince him to upgrade to a main breaker/switch, but he didn't want to wait a month for siemens to design and ship it. That way we could do upgrades and maintanence w/o an expensive scheduled outage. I know the GC won't split it....this part is a change order but the GC (residential guy, in biz for 40 yrs and a multi-millionaire) underbid the rest of the job since it was out of his normal field of experience and we all know it rolls down hill from there.
 
I was doing mostly residential work when I started and the POCO supplied the underground wire from transformer to meter and pulled it into my supplied conduit on my first commercial job I did not bid the wire only to find out the POCO did not supply or pull the uderground wire on commercial. Sometimes the learning process is expensive.
 
LarryFine said:
I would do everything I can to take advantage of that clause.
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So would I. I would also charge extra to locate and install that 200 Amp. meter socket. It's much better to let people think that you are expensive rather than stupid. That's how business works, never take responsibility for anything that you don't have to. :grin:
 
I had a situation where I landed the wires wrong on an 800-amp service with four 200-amp panels. The POCO connected power, but the meter installer wouldn't set the meters. I had to call the POCO out again to disconnect so I could move and relabel wires. They show up with a bucket truck & another...two trucks & three guys. All I could think was this is going to cost me a fortune. I talked with all the guys about what an idiot I was & in the end never got a bill for it.

Dave
 
It sounds like it was your oversight or lack of experience in this type of work that caused this extra expense. I have paid dearly for this type of education and I'll bet many on this forum will admit the same.

I've never believed that business is all about the money. While you cannot ignore the bottom line, many times it pays off in the long run to take your lumps and show that you are a man of honor. The people who recognize and appreciate this trait are the ones you really want to work for anyway.
 
Education is expensive. The problem is Im not sure that the GC appreciates and values my honesty in this particular case. It seems that they're allowed to make their mistakes while I'm not.
 
I don't think you made any mistake, unless you neglect to use your unforseen clause. The area was behind a sealed poco panel. That means you could not "see" it. What is questionable about that? And you are not the end user of the 200 amp upgrade, so you should not have to pay to get the system up to that 200 amps. Send in your bill, let the GC pass the cost on to the building owner, and let the building owner settle the charges with the power company as he pleases. Edit to add, I always stipulate that the property owner is responsible to pay any and all utility charges on all jobs. If the contract is the AIA version, I mark out what I don't want to sign and add that clause in.
 
bkludecke said:
I've never believed that business is all about the money. While you cannot ignore the bottom line, many times it pays off in the long run to take your lumps and show that you are a man of honor. The people who recognize and appreciate this trait are the ones you really want to work for anyway.
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I whole heartedly agree. Be upfront, explain the situation HONESTLY, and you may be surprised. If you are not pleasantly surprised, then this is not a contractor and/or owner that you want to spend much more time with. Don't try to hide it or "sneak" it in under something else. Be upfront.

The people who will lie about it for $2400 won't have the loyal customers to fall back on when times get tight.
 
I have been completely upfront. As soon as I saw that the meter socket needed to be upgraded I tried to find one. Problem is it was a Sun. and even through my emergency contacts I couldnt find one. This initial work was done a month ago and now we just got the new confirmed date for a 2nd scheduled outage on a future Sun. The GC sent ME the POCO bill for the future outage and it must be paid IN TOTAL AND IN ADVANCE BY MONDAY otherwise we lose the date. The first outage cost the owner at least 2400 because a line man hand to be on standby (and on OT) per the POCOs rules.
I really want to get this job out of my life and move on, but I don't fancy another paying them for the privilege of working on there job type of deal. I've only been in biz 2-3 yrs, but I know all about taking my lumps.
 
sparky76 said:
I have been completely upfront. As soon as I saw that the meter socket needed to be upgraded I tried to find one. Problem is it was a Sun. and even through my emergency contacts I couldnt find one. This initial work was done a month ago and now we just got the new confirmed date for a 2nd scheduled outage on a future Sun. The GC sent ME the POCO bill for the future outage and it must be paid IN TOTAL AND IN ADVANCE BY MONDAY otherwise we lose the date. The first outage cost the owner at least 2400 because a line man hand to be on standby (and on OT) per the POCOs rules.
I really want to get this job out of my life and move on, but I don't fancy another paying them for the privilege of working on there job type of deal. I've only been in biz 2-3 yrs, but I know all about taking my lumps.
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Sparky, In your next proposal put a "Not responsible for utility cost clause". That's how most contractors do it.
 
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LarryFine said:
I would do everything I can to take advantage of that clause.
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But in this case they will argue that it should not have been unexpected, etc. etc., so not sure if that would have worked. I feel for you though Sparky76. There is no way that a person can anticipate all possible hurdles and some do come back to bite. e/m.
 
I would send them a bill for the "unforseen" expense, and tell them you'll schedule the work as soon as they have a check ready so you can give it to the utility company. then you can negotiate, if necessary. Contractors who operate in the red don't stay in business - how are you going to warranty the work if they run you out of business ? If you couldn't open the utility cabt., you couldn't see the problem. Of course it would have been nice if you had anticipated the problem, but this is not a perfect world. Sell them on this. Its nice if you can "take your lumps" and live by your word, but if it puts you in the red you have to decide if the client is worth it or not ultimately before you decide to pay someone so you can work for them.
 
sparky76 said:
I realized that I had overlooked a critical component- the meter socket which I hadnt inspected before the outage because it was behind a POCO sealed section.
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I probably would have missed this also. You could have cut the seal and looked. If you fight it and they get another opinion it will probably still be your problem.

I say if you pay the bill and finish the job you will have gained the respect of the GC and will get more jobs because of that.

Tim
 
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