Something missing??

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Nicksab

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Marin county california
Is it just me or something is missing in the picture below?

20171101_180109.jpg

I just came across this on job I am bidding on for a small remodel.

For what I can tell, there is something wrong on that main disconnect.

The MD feeds 2 subpanel and has the 2 hot from the meter coming in. Ground and neutral connected.

Panel #1 in a detached building is getting 4 wires from the MD which seems correct.

Panel # 2 on the other side of the wall is getting only 2 hot wires from the MD. The neutral is coming straight in from the meter bypassing the MD. No ground whatsoever.

That s whole setup doesn't seems right to me and I am getting concerned about it. Should I point it out to the HO?
 
I can see what's wrong with it, but I can't tell you why they did it. Looks like two blacks and a red coming into the top and the two blacks go to the line side and the red is on the load side. Someone may be stealing power.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I can see what's wrong with it, but I can't tell you why they did it. Looks like two blacks and a red coming into the top and the two blacks go to the line side and the red is on the load side. Someone may be stealing power.
Click to expand...

Lol. Nobody is stealing power.

The red and black are not the wire bugging me.

Technically, there is 2 black coming from the meter abive they the top connected to the line side.

On the load side, there is 4 wire. 2 on each fuse. One set goes thru the bottom to panel #1. Another set going thru the top to panel #2 on the back of the wall.

There is a green and white wire going thru the bottom to panel #1 only.


There is absolutely no white wire (neutral) coming from the meter to this disconnect.

The only neutral is from meter to panel #2. Which is fine I guess since the neutral is bonded there.

My concern is with panel #1. The neutral from panel does not have any direct connection to neutral at the meter.

Here is another picture.

20171101_180116.jpg
 
MAC702 said:
I noticed the lack of white wire from the line side, AND that red wire from same place as lines going to the load side of a fuse.
Click to expand...

Exactly. No white means no neutral from meter box. Seriously?

For the red, I think it should be recoded to black since it is going from load side to panel.

My guess is the 1" conduit was too small for 5 wires and they skipped the neutral since they could not feed it in.
 
Nicksab said:
Exactly. No white means no neutral from meter box. Seriously?

For the red, I think it should be recoded to black since it is going from load side to panel.

My guess is the 1" conduit was too small for 5 wires and they skipped the neutral since they could not feed it in.
Click to expand...

If that panel serves purely a 240v load, is a neutral required?
 
Okay, now I see the red does have a companion conductor (a black) coming from the other load lug and going with it up the pipe with the service conductors. So, I'm deleting my question about that.
 
Nicksab said:
Lol. Nobody is stealing power.

The red and black are not the wire bugging me.

Technically, there is 2 black coming from the meter abive they the top connected to the line side.

On the load side, there is 4 wire. 2 on each fuse. One set goes thru the bottom to panel #1. Another set going thru the top to panel #2 on the back of the wall.

There is a green and white wire going thru the bottom to panel #1 only.


There is absolutely no white wire (neutral) coming from the meter to this disconnect.

The only neutral is from meter to panel #2. Which is fine I guess since the neutral is bonded there.

My concern is with panel #1. The neutral from panel does not have any direct connection to neutral at the meter.

Here is another picture.

View attachment 18892
Click to expand...
I'm somewhat confused, you mention panels 1 and 2, what is this disconnect supplying? Is it a service disconnect? If so where/what are other service disconnecting means supplying panels 1 and 2?

Is there neutral load in whatever this disconnect supplies? If not maybe nothing wrong with pulling white wire but may be a good idea not to terminate it and make someone think it is usable as is. Otherwise if there is a metal raceway supplying the disconnect it is suitable for equipment grounding and looks like the bonding screw is installed so the EGC is bonded to the enclosure.
 
kwired said:
I'm somewhat confused, you mention panels 1 and 2, what is this disconnect supplying? Is it a service disconnect? If so where/what are other service disconnecting means supplying panels 1 and 2?

Is there neutral load in whatever this disconnect supplies? If not maybe nothing wrong with pulling white wire but may be a good idea not to terminate it and make someone think it is usable as is. Otherwise if there is a metal raceway supplying the disconnect it is suitable for equipment grounding and looks like the bonding screw is installed so the EGC is bonded to the enclosure.
Click to expand...

This disconnect is supplying both panels actually. There is no other disconnect.

The panel missing neutral to meter is serving an electric water heater and the ac blower. So It does requires neutral. Could they have use the conduit between meter and disconnect as a way of providing neutral?
 
Nicksab said:
...The panel missing neutral to meter is serving an electric water heater and the ac blower. So It does requires neutral. Could they have use the conduit between meter and disconnect as a way of providing neutral?
Click to expand...

A typical water heater doesn't need the neutral. Some AC blowers are 240V and, if so, won't need the neutral either.

But the other panel sure does. My guess is that the conduit is being used as a CCC.
 
Nicksab said:
This disconnect is supplying both panels actually. There is no other disconnect.

The panel missing neutral to meter is serving an electric water heater and the ac blower. So It does requires neutral. Could they have use the conduit between meter and disconnect as a way of providing neutral?
Click to expand...

My guess is that the panel once supplied only the water heater. Later on, some one (of questionable competence?) added the wiring for the blower.
 
MAC702 said:
A typical water heater doesn't need the neutral. Some AC blowers are 240V and, if so, won't need the neutral either.

But the other panel sure does. My guess is that the conduit is being used as a CCC.
Click to expand...

Make sense except for the water heater being decades old and questionable.

The whole setup is just pla in odd. Why would they bother running 4 wire in pvc from the disconnect to panel which is in separate building about 20'away and not connect the neutral to meter 1' above the disconnect.

Maybe they run out of wire. Lol
 
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