Source of "arc"

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rkrieger

rkrieger

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Doing a new service upgrade to an older home built in 50's. While meter was removed and after new ground rods were connected together and to new panel, we removed jumper around city water meter and drew a respectable arc upon disconnect. When wondering where to current source was coming from, someone mentioned a old "leaky" pole transformer. Anyone seen this before???

Thanks,
RLK:)
 
Even with the meter removed, the neutral is still in tact. What you've experienced is somewhat typical if you're on municipal water lines and a neighboring property has a loose or open neutral. They are passing neutral current through the pipework (via their MBJ and GEC), up your GEC, through your MBJ, through your neutral connection in the meter pan, and back to the transformer. Never, ever remove a grounding electrode conductor in the city without at least taking an amp reading.
 
Textbook description of your or your neighbors' neutral current using metallic warer supply plumbing as neutral-current pathway.

Since it happens with your meter removed, it must be the latter.
 
OK, but............

OK, but............

You both have pointed out excellent explanations, BUT, the source of the loose neutral could indeed be the neutral connection at the trans. also. Right? If so, then everyone served by that can would have the same condition???

RLK
 
rkrieger said:
You both have pointed out excellent explanations, BUT, the source of the loose neutral could indeed be the neutral connection at the trans. also. Right? If so, then everyone served by that can would have the same condition???
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Ah, no, not really. If the transformer neutral connection was loose or open, then there couldn't be any or little neutral current passing on that water line. You see, it's coming "in" on that water line from somebody else that's connected to that underground water line, and "out" to the transformer on your aerial drop. The problem is 100% not related to the pole top transformer. It would be a physical impossibility.

There may, however, be a neighbor's neutral tap loose or open at the transformer end of their aerial drop.
 
I actually have experienced what you described..I even took pics and small video of it..It was actually kind of cool..I believe what you are experiencing is an unbalanced neutral load on the water line..What I discover on ours was just that..two of the buildings did not have a ground other than the metal water line..I have since than corrected the problems..I am doing a service upgrade on one of the buildings this year and will get to make more improvements..Yet if you had a loose neutral on the pole trans former you would have way bigger problems..like with a high Resistance or open neutral you would encounter things like appliances with shortened life cycles..electronic items being fried during moderate storms were winds would shake the wires and change the Resistance regularly on poor connections spooky stuff like that..all of which I have encountered in my life time since we are in overhead country with trees and ice storms which are the worst in my opinion..So my vote is on unbalanced neutral currents with non damaging amperage..
 
The answer to your post

The answer to your post

Is easily remedied by a digital volt meter. determine with the meter jumer removed if the voltage is on the street side of the meter or the homeowners side of the meter and this simple method will tell you whos problem it is. Trust your ground because it is in fact ground. be careful disconnecting the meter jumper because it can become energized on either side upon opening. Quiet because people are actually learning something from this post as much as they hate to admit it.
 
meter reading??

meter reading??

Are you saying that a DVM will read straight polarity one way and a "-" in front of reading indicating reversed polarity the other? I missed how this could identify street side or home side?

RLK
 
quogueelectric said:
determine with the meter jumer removed if the voltage is on the street side of the meter or the homeowners side of the meter and this simple method will tell you whos problem it is.
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Are you suggesting that the current is coming "in" (or could come in) on this customer's neutral? Hogwash.
 
quogueelectric said:
Quiet because people are actually learning something from this post as much as they hate to admit it.
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Remember: There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

Bonding jumper around the meter? Is this something installed prior to your service change?

And if I haven't been doing this, and I haven't, and had never been shown this, Why should I be doing this?

You have my attention.
 
simple

simple

rkrieger said:
Are you saying that a DVM will read straight polarity one way and a "-" in front of reading indicating reversed polarity the other? I missed how this could identify street side or home side?

RLK
Click to expand...
Use ground as ground and measure from street side and house side when the meter jumper is disconected. It will tell you if the problem is from within your house or from a neighboring service then you call poco to fix it simple ohms law either way. no bs just ohms law once again.
 
A point of clarafication!!!

A point of clarafication!!!

My original post and question was regarding the jumper around the city water meter and not the electrical service meter. I believe someone may have gotten "off track" with a "meter" jumper.
 
rkrieger said:
My original post and question was regarding the jumper around the city water meterand not the service meter. I believe someone may have gotten "off track" with a "meter" jumper.
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I went back and read that and thought you said water...Can you tell me about the jumper? I have never done thaat.
 
I finally get it

I finally get it

OK, after re-reading quoqueelectric's post, I now understand what he was saying. My question re: DVM was directed at the "water meter jumper" and his response was dealing with dis-connecting the neutral connection in meter socket. I was on a different page in my feeble mind.

Thanks,:smile: :)
 
To "frizbeedog"

To "frizbeedog"

In Michigan, you are required to install a "bonding jumper" across the city water meter using the same size GEC as the service. We normally use #4 cu, even though #6 is for a 200A service. Intent is that IF someone removes the removable water meter for service/replacement, the water plumbing bond is maintained. We even see some jurisdictions requiring a jumper between HOT and COLD on water heater for the same reason. Also, some area require the bonding of gas lines and some don't want it. Pays to know EI.
 
no no no

no no no

the disconnect was at the water meter and you should include the poco if you are legitimate because rmoving the meter jumper could set a neighboring house on fire. you have my post all wrong.
 
Oops

Oops

OK, Now I am on your page...............We were talking about two different things. Sorry and thanks for your help.
 
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