Spa 680.42.C

[Greg1707]

I am really confused about wiring an outdoor spa. Is an insulated equipment ground required from disconnect/gfci/breaker to hot tub?
I understand from panel to exterior of house can be NM but I thought everything was outside required insulated ground?

Also, disconnect is required with in sight. Is there a distance limitation?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Within site means 50' and within sight.

In Sight From (Within Sight From, Within Sight). Where this
Code specifies that one equipment shall be “in sight from,”
“within sight from,” or “within sight of,” and so forth, another
equipment, the specified equipment is to be visible and not
more than 15 m (50 ft) distant from the other.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Once you are on the exterior of the house then you must follow the same rules as a pool so yes an insulated equipment grounding conductor is needed

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If you just have a meter on the outside then the issue can be there, or even the meter itself could be an issue. Obviously there is an issue outdoors if the issue is worse in the rain

 

[Greg1707]

The electrical specifications for the above ground spa state: Heater-4,000 watts "230 volt, 60 amp single phase GFCI protected."
I would think a #6 EGC and 3 -#10s would do the job?

 

[Greg1707]

UPDATE: #10 insulated EGC and 3-#10s

 

[LarryFine]

UPDATE: #10 insulated EGC and 3-#10s

Try again. 60 amps means . . . ?

 

[Greg1707]

230 volts means?

 

[SSDriver]

230 volts means?

That is still single phase. If its 60 amps, #10 is way to small.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Greg1707]

I apologize for not being more specific. The specification sheet states: 4,000 watts 230 volts. The instruction manual states 60 amps 230 volts single phase GFCI protected. It is a little confusing. I wonder if the 60 amps comes from the fact that spa disconnects are typically 60 amps.
I just assumed the load would be 4000 watts?

 

[Little Bill]

230 volts means?

Means that's the voltage, not the required amperage.

The specs of 4000W is just for the heater, you have pumps, lights, etc. It calls for 60A period.

 

[Greg1707]

Thanks for the help. I am still working on this spa. It is an Endless Pools X2000. I don't understand the wiring diagram from the 60 amp GFCI to the spa. It shows two double pole 30 amp breakers and parallel conductors from subpanel to spa. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Little Bill]

Looks like they want you to feed a subpanel (unclear whether they furnish that, sell it, or you provide) with a 60A feed from a 60A, non-GFCI breaker. Then feed two 30A GFCI circuits from the sub to their control box.

I have wired them that required multiple circuits similar to this. Usually (2) 30A and a 20A. They wanted to sell me a subpanel but I provided my own at a much lower cost.

 

[kwired]

Looks like they want you to feed a subpanel (unclear whether they furnish that, sell it, or you provide) with a 60A feed from a 60A, non-GFCI breaker. Then feed two 30A GFCI circuits from the sub to their control box.

I have wired them that required multiple circuits similar to this. Usually (2) 30A and a 20A. They wanted to sell me a subpanel but I provided my own at a much lower cost.

Most cases for me the spa provider already included the disconnect (single breaker or dual breaker as needed) in the sale. I do have to install it though.

 

[Beaches EE]

This method helps to reduce GFCI trips due to long runs from the indoor panel to the hot tub and also makes troubleshooting easier by separating the tub electricals into two circuits. I am not sure why they call for a #8 EGC, though.

 

[kwired]

This method helps to reduce GFCI trips due to long runs from the indoor panel to the hot tub and also makes troubleshooting easier by separating the tub electricals into two circuits. I am not sure why they call for a #8 EGC, though.

I think many do that because they have confusion involving equipotential bonding conductors needing to be 8 AWG and they think this means the EGC should be also. But a smaller EGC where NEC otherwise allows is not a problem

 

[Greg1707]

It is very common to see specifications for equipment state 115 V or 230 V.
Where does this come from? Is this something we just ignore?

 

[Little Bill]

It is very common to see specifications for equipment state 115 V or 230 V.
Where does this come from? Is this something we just ignore?

In the "motor world" they use these numbers universally. So we just know that a 115V will work on our 120V systems and the same with 230V, they will work with 240V. Also you see 460V and that relates to 480V. Most have a tolerance range, that right off I can't remember, but will allow nominal voltages to work with the motors.

 

[kwired]

It is very common to see specifications for equipment state 115 V or 230 V.
Where does this come from? Is this something we just ignore?

AFAIK it is the base that they are designed on, with a tolerance level. Many times you can find no load supply volts up to around 125, which is not quite 10% over that base. Also you will often find as loads get added to the source the voltage will drop some, getting closer to the designed base.

Add enough loads that voltage falls below this base and you are still ok as long as you don't go below designed tolerance.