Spa Pack (WTH?)

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Richardtheelectrician

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Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
I've really been hitting balls out of the ballpark as far as weird electrical goes, these days. Just this morning I learned what a balun is.
Now tomorrow some cat wants a "spa-pack" hooked up for his parents, because the spa breaker keeps tripping. Job very far away. Sounds like a con from the spa-pack manufacturer, or bad initial installation. I would sure appreciate any advice, tips, experience.
 
yeah sounds like a good one, have they ordered and received the spa pack?
all they want you to do is install it?

added: i have hooked up a few spas, but as far as replacing the guts, i have not, but i do have a tip
be ready for the "while you're here" questions
 
Last edited:
Richardtheelectrician said:
I've really been hitting balls out of the ballpark as far as weird electrical goes, these days. Just this morning I learned what a balun is.
Now tomorrow some cat wants a "spa-pack" hooked up for his parents, because the spa breaker keeps tripping. Job very far away. Sounds like a con from the spa-pack manufacturer, or bad initial installation. I would sure appreciate any advice, tips, experience.
Click to expand...

Well heres a few:

Someone got antsy and turned on power before enough water was in tub and it burned up heater element, Hot tubs will always resort to heat mode upon a power failure or anytime power is first applied. (Get info and location of where they got hot tub before leaving so you will know where to get replacement heater if bad) I don't change them and tell the customer to have the hot tub place to change it, I don't want to be responsible for leaks.

Someone who didn't know what they were doing wired a 4-wire tub with a 3-wire circuit using the EGC as the neutral, this will always result in the GFCI tripping. (bring extra #6 with you)

Neutral landed on the neutral buss instead of the GFCI breaker, or GFCI breaker is type without a neutral terminal, (not seen many of these any more) (bring extra 50 amp GFCI breaker with neutral with you if you have one)

Neutral touching hot or grounded somewhere.

Sounds like someone tried to install it themselves but maybe didn't know what their doing, but we must keep an open mind that it could be just a defect from the factory?

When I go on long trip jobs, I use my computer to look up supply houses and print a copy and maps or use my GPS before I get there, saves allot of time looking for a place to find what I need.
 
My $.02 worth of information.

90% chance that heater has a developed a fault to ground. Only takes a 4-6 mA fault to trip a GFCI. If not heater something else may have developed a ground fault but heater is most common. Bring a megohmeter and test the heater, the pumps, and anything else the unit may have.

My guess at what a Spa Pack is - probably the small panelboards specifically marketed for use with spa's and GFCI breaker. If I am right on this and the existing breaker is tripping because of a ground fault - the new GFCI in the spa pack will still trip because of same ground fault. Make sure there is no ground fault before throwing parts at it just to see if that resolves the issue (treat the source not the symptom).
 
Usually when I see "Spa Pack" this tells me this is a built in spa/hot tub that has a pump, heater, air blower, and maybe a filter system that is in another location, kind of like a very small pool system. not like an all self contained hot tub we see sitting on the deck.

For some reason last night I didn't think of this.
 
read the directions

read the directions

Read the directions, all of the options and double check settings, jumpers, voltages, connections.
Fill with water before applying power.

If you are troubleshooting disconnect everything and reconnect one thing at a time till the gfci trips.
 
I can report success on the "spa-pack" installation.
As usual, I went to the job with incomplete information, because apparently customers and electricians don't speak the same language. The spa-pack in question was not the replacement guts for the spa, but was instead a spa disconnect, a 50a gfci breaker in a type 3R housing.
The problem reported by the customer was that they had to reset the 50a spa breaker (which was not a gfci) each morning to make the circulation pump work for the day. The breaker never tripped. They just reset it. Spa manufacturer told them to install spa-pack.
I get there, take cover off panel, note the non-gfci 50a breaker, and removed the four wires without using a screwdriver. You guessed it, there brother-in-law did the initial wiring.
So I cut into the pvc feeding the spa, installed the new disconnect, tightened everything, put on my monocle, and gave them the bill. Customer reports this morning everything is working fine.
I saw immediately that they did not need the disconnect, just the proper breaker in the panel, and wires tightened. But they hired me to install it at the manufacturer's recommendation, so I got out all my little screwdrivers and books and put it in, and essentially paid the rent thanks to brother-in-law.
ps: I used to work with the best electricians in the world, now I'm a one-man outfit, and this forum reminds me of the good-old-days, when playing two games of pool at lunch was de rigueur.
 
Richardtheelectrician said:
I can report success on the "spa-pack" installation.
As usual, I went to the job with incomplete information, because apparently customers and electricians don't speak the same language. The spa-pack in question was not the replacement guts for the spa, but was instead a spa disconnect, a 50a gfci breaker in a type 3R housing.
The problem reported by the customer was that they had to reset the 50a spa breaker (which was not a gfci) each morning to make the circulation pump work for the day. The breaker never tripped. They just reset it. Spa manufacturer told them to install spa-pack.
I get there, take cover off panel, note the non-gfci 50a breaker, and removed the four wires without using a screwdriver. You guessed it, there brother-in-law did the initial wiring.
So I cut into the pvc feeding the spa, installed the new disconnect, tightened everything, put on my monocle, and gave them the bill. Customer reports this morning everything is working fine.
I saw immediately that they did not need the disconnect, just the proper breaker in the panel, and wires tightened. But they hired me to install it at the manufacturer's recommendation, so I got out all my little screwdrivers and books and put it in, and essentially paid the rent thanks to brother-in-law.
ps: I used to work with the best electricians in the world, now I'm a one-man outfit, and this forum reminds me of the good-old-days, when playing two games of pool at lunch was de rigueur.
Click to expand...

What do I win for guessing what a "spa pack" is back in post #6?

Still sounds a little like throwing parts at it until it works approach - although apparently a GFCI was really needed on this install. I really hate diagnosing anything over phone unless it is at a facility I am familiar with, then I know more of what is there and can ask more specific questions. In this particular instance one would assume before seeing it that there is a GFCI someplace - then you get there and find out there is not - this is a problem even if not related to the cause of the problem at hand.
 
kwired said:
What do I win for guessing what a "spa pack" is back in post #6?

Still sounds a little like throwing parts at it until it works approach - although apparently a GFCI was really needed on this install. I really hate diagnosing anything over phone unless it is at a facility I am familiar with, then I know more of what is there and can ask more specific questions. In this particular instance one would assume before seeing it that there is a GFCI someplace - then you get there and find out there is not - this is a problem even if not related to the cause of the problem at hand.
Click to expand...
Apparently the lack of a gfci breaker and/or loose wires was the cause of the problem. You win a free game of pool.
 
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