SPA Panel/Insulated Copper Ground

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DrSparks

DrSparks

The Everlasting Know-it-all!
Location
Madison, WI, USA
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Master Electrician and General Contractor
I installed a spa panel for a client a few years back and the inspector failed me because I ran SER to the panel and an insulated Copper ground to the spa junction box. He said the feeder needs an insulated copper ground as well. That's not how I interpret the code.

Thoughts?

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He could have violated you for using SE cable. {680.25(A)(1)}
 
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Yeah I see the exception for dwelling units. It allows a cable assembly but specifically requires an insulated ground. Thanks guys.

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infinity said:
He could have violated you for using SE cable. {680.25(A)(10}
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I see your typo, had me on a wild goose chase for a bit as I thought you referenced (A)(10) and I was wondering which edition you found that in, then realized you just didn't hit the shift key at the end of trying to enter (A)(1).:blink:
 
kwired said:
I see your typo, had me on a wild goose chase for a bit as I thought you referenced (A)(10) and I was wondering which edition you found that in, then realized you just didn't hit the shift key at the end of trying to enter (A)(1).:blink:
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Yeah I was wondering but I didn't say anything. I found the code though. Thanks guys.

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kwired said:
I see your typo, had me on a wild goose chase for a bit as I thought you referenced (A)(10) and I was wondering which edition you found that in, then realized you just didn't hit the shift key at the end of trying to enter (A)(1).:blink:
Click to expand...

Oops yes (1) not (10. :ashamed1:

I've fixed it. :)
 
I'm kind of getting a popsicle headache reading 680.25 (Both in 2014 and 2017). My question is, what if the existing main panel of the house was actually fed by aluminum SER cable from a meter/disconnect, therefore it is fed from a feeder. Would this be a violation if you feed the pool equipment directly from this panel?
 
Leespark57 said:
I'm kind of getting a popsicle headache reading 680.25 (Both in 2014 and 2017). My question is, what if the existing main panel of the house was actually fed by aluminum SER cable from a meter/disconnect, therefore it is fed from a feeder. Would this be a violation if you feed the pool equipment directly from this panel?
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Not sure what 2017 says, but strict reading of 2014 I'd have to say it is a violation.
 
electrofelon said:
I am not real strong on 680, but I though there was language that allowed existing SER upstream
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Only thing I am seeing is "
For other than feeders to separate buildings that do not utilize an insulated equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 680.25(B)(2), this equipment grounding conductor shall be insulated." Which involves pools supplied by feeders to separate buildings.

I do know there are conditions that allow non insulated EGC for a branch circuit like say to run NM cable inside a dwelling and then convert to another method when exiting the structure, maybe you are thinking of that?
 
kwired said:
I do know there are conditions that allow non insulated EGC for a branch circuit like say to run NM cable inside a dwelling and then convert to another method when exiting the structure, maybe you are thinking of that?
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Yeah sounds like it. Isnt that what is going on in the OP? I guess maybe it doesnt have anything to do with existing. So I can use a cable with a non insulated EGCC but that is contained in an overall sheath, such as ramen or SE, but I need to change to insulated EGC once outside. Is that essentially it?
 
electrofelon said:
Yeah sounds like it. Isnt that what is going on in the OP? I guess maybe it doesnt have anything to do with existing. So I can use a cable with a non insulated EGCC but that is contained in an overall sheath, such as ramen or SE, but I need to change to insulated EGC once outside. Is that essentially it?
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OP used SE cable for a feeder, not a branch circuit.

I don't necessarily think that is a problem, but is what code says.
 
kwired said:
Not sure what 2017 says, but strict reading of 2014 I'd have to say it is a violation.
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I agree. I read it and it specifically States that the ground wire in the cable assembly has to be insulated. I suppose if they had ser with an insulated ground wire it would be technically allowed. Does anyone know if there is Ser with an insulated ground wire?

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Where are you reading that an SE cable with insulated ground is acceptable? Its not one of the wiring methods in the 2014 NEC or prior additions.

(A) Wiring Methods.
(1) Feeders. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit
or intermediate metal conduit. The following wiring methods
shall be permitted if not subject to physical damage:
(1) Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit
(2) Rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit
(3) Reinforced thermosetting resin conduit
(4) Electrical metallic tubing where installed on or within a
building
(5) Electrical nonmetallic tubing where installed within a
building
(6) Type MC cable where installed within a building and if
not subject to corrosive environment
 
curt swartz said:
Where are you reading that an SE cable with insulated ground is acceptable? Its not one of the wiring methods in the 2014 NEC or prior additions.

(A) Wiring Methods.
(1) Feeders. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit
or intermediate metal conduit. The following wiring methods
shall be permitted if not subject to physical damage:
(1) Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit
(2) Rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit
(3) Reinforced thermosetting resin conduit
(4) Electrical metallic tubing where installed on or within a
building
(5) Electrical nonmetallic tubing where installed within a
building
(6) Type MC cable where installed within a building and if
not subject to corrosive environment
Click to expand...

I guess that no one bothered to look at the reference in post #3. :D
 
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