Spa wiring

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joesmud

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Hello,
I am looking to hook up a used 4 wire spa at my house. The previous owner had a 240v spa hooked up but would'nt sell it with the house, so when I looked at their wiring...& it had the 50amp GFCI breaker in the service panel & a run of 2-#6 stranded & 1-Bare CU. The run is about 75ft & there is/was no disconnect at the spa location!!

The question I have is when I took a look into the svc panel it looks like they had it wired with the black & white to each leg & the bare to the neutral(white on the breaker)...Maybe I am not gettting it but where is the ground? Is the neutral supposed to also be the ground in this setup? Isn't the white connection on the breaker supposed to go to neutral? How does a 3 wire 240v system work with a GFCI but without a ground?

Now, before you rip me a new one...I will be pulling in a new 4 wire setup to MY spa with a GFCI disconnect, 5-15ft away from the spa location...So this will not be an issue...I was just curious what the heck the previous owners were doing & if I need to look at anything else they may have wired in...(it looks like they also wired a 220v outlet in the garage for some equipment) or is the scenario above an acceptable setup with a hot tub?

thanks...

Joe

[ August 17, 2005, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: joesmud ]
 
Re: Spa wiring

I had temporarily moved this thread to an area accessible only to Moderators. I had been concerned with an "electrical designer" attempting to do installation work at home. I have since learned that the OP is a former lineman, and has electrical installation experience.

I am returning this thread to the active area, and offer an apology to its originator.
 
Re: Spa wiring

It sounds like the original installer had about enough knowledge to get someone seriously injured or killed. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
It sounds as if you're doing the right thing and replacing it.

In their set-up, if in deed it was a straight 240v hook-up, the bare should have been connected to the ground bar. The white pig-tail from the breaker should have been connected to the bar as well.
Nothing then would have been connected to the white screw on the breaker.
 
Re: Spa wiring

Now I agree that who ever wired this did a bad job and didn't follow the code. I believe the old spa was a 3 wire hook up. 2(hots) & 1 ground wire. They also have a 4 wire hook up also. 2 (hots) 1 neutral & 1 ground wire. Back to the oringal 3 wire spa. I believe why they didn't put a disconnect near the spa is because they didn't what to pull a neutral for the GFCI breaker and was cheap. So he put the breaker in the main panel box where there's a neutral for the GFCI breaker. As you know this type of breaker needs a neutral for it to work. Even though the gfci monitors the 2 hot conductors in this system. I glad that your doing it correct now.
Jim
 
Re: Spa wiring

A disconnect was not always required at the tub.

I believe it was either the '96 or the '99 Code that changed the wording and required it.

Before that, the way it was worded, the Code only told you where the disconnect had to be if you decided to install one.

I'm not sure that the original installer new this.

And,
sorry, James, but I disagree. I don't believe they were being cheap, so no neutral to a disconnect. Because Joe stated that the original installer put the
bare to the neutral(white on the breaker)...
Click to expand...
, I believe they just didn't know what they were doing.
 
Re: Spa wiring

Luke,

That was what I was thinking...the bare should connect to the grounding bar & not connect to the white connection on the breaker. The 240v outlet in the garage was wired the same way...I am so glad I decided to buy a used hot tub!!


Thanks for the responses...When I saw this I had to stop for a second & think about it...you know when you see something wired wrong, it takes a second to realize, then you wonder what the heck they were doing. I still can't believe there was no ground to the hot tub...makes me wonder what else the previous owner worked on in my "new" house without getting a permit or having a contractor actually do the work.

I was able to look up the permits that were pulled for my house previously...none, so he wired this on his own. Not good...

Also, James...I thought the GFCI can work without a neutral...someone please correct me if not.

Joe

[ August 18, 2005, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: joesmud ]
 
Re: Spa wiring

joesmud wrote:

(Also, James...I thought the GFCI can work without a neutral...someone please correct me if not.

Joe , the gfci breakers needs to have a neutral to it. It might not be part of the circuit but still needs to be hooked up so the breaker will work correctly.
 
Re: Spa wiring

luke warmwater wrote:
sorry, James, but I disagree. I don't believe they were being cheap, so no neutral to a disconnect. Because Joe stated that the original installer put the
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bare to the neutral(white on the breaker)...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

, I believe they just didn't know what they were doing.

Sorry luke but I missed that and your correct. I'll try to look over thread better next time.
Thanks!
Jim
(
 
Re: Spa wiring

James,
no problem. I don't know if I'm right, but I think I am :)

Joe,
to possibly clear up what James is saying, the breaker neutral pigtail must be hooked up to the neutral bar, but the breaker will still work on a straight 240v load, if it is hooked up correctly.

Does that make sense?
 
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