Spare breakers in panel ( Identification )

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Davebones

Senior Member
Location
North Of Tampa Fl
We have a 120-240v panel that one of the safety guys opened the cover to . The breakers are all identified as to what equipment they feed or marked spare if not used . We also have a piece of white tape that was put across the spare breakers in this panel so we know there is no wire on the breaker .

1. Safety says the breakers have to be "ON" or a " BLANK" put in its place .

2. Safety says we can't have a piece of white tape across the breaker in the open position . ( This was done just to be a quick reference when we last had power shut down and the cover removed . We eventually remove the tape sometimes it's left there till we move equipment again )

Does this violate OHSA or NEC requirements ???
 
As far as the NEC is concerned I just think the panel directory needs to be marked as a spare or such. The tape is optional according to what you/the customer wants.

408.4 Field Identification Required.
(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification. Every
circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as
to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification
shall include an approved degree of detail that
allows each circuit to be distinguished from all others.
Spare positions that contain unused overcurrent devices or
switches shall be described accordingly. The identification
shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the
face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard
and at each switch or circuit breaker in a switchboard or
switchgear. No circuit shall be described in a manner that
depends on transient conditions of occupancy.


Edit: I just noticed you wrote that breakers are marked as spares, so the NEC is satisfied.
 
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Davebones said:
We have a 120-240v panel that one of the safety guys opened the cover to . The breakers are all identified as to what equipment they feed or marked spare if not used . We also have a piece of white tape that was put across the spare breakers in this panel so we know there is no wire on the breaker .

1. Safety says the breakers have to be "ON" or a " BLANK" put in its place .

2. Safety says we can't have a piece of white tape across the breaker in the open position . ( This was done just to be a quick reference when we last had power shut down and the cover removed . We eventually remove the tape sometimes it's left there till we move equipment again )

Does this violate OHSA or NEC requirements ???
Click to expand...

The obvious answer is that there is no NEC or OSHA requirement that I am aware of that would require this.

The longer answer is that if the company actually has a safety rule that says this is required, OSHA will require you to abide by your own rules, even if they are not really a safety issue, or required by some code.
 
There is no issue with leaving spare breakers in the "on" position, so just mark them as spare in the panel directory and turn them on....the only real issue is that, without taking the cover off, you are not really sure that the breaker is a spare breaker because changes can occur without the directory being updated.
 
jumper said:
As far as the NEC is concerned I just think the panel directory needs to be marked as a spare or such. The tape is optional according to what you/the customer wants.

408.4 Field Identification Required.
(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification. Every
circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as
to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification
shall include an approved degree of detail that
allows each circuit to be distinguished from all others.
Spare positions that contain unused overcurrent devices or
switches shall be described accordingly. The identification
shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the
face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard
and at each switch or circuit breaker in a switchboard or
switchgear. No circuit shall be described in a manner that
depends on transient conditions of occupancy.


Edit: I just noticed you wrote that breakers are marked as spares, so the NEC is satisfied.
Click to expand...


I recommend identifying spare positions by writing the word spare in pencil, so that someone using the breaker in the future can erase it and write in their own description.
 
Carultch said:
I recommend identifying spare positions by writing the word spare in pencil, so that someone using the breaker in the future can erase it and write in their own description.
Click to expand...

This is what I have been doing for years on type written panel schedules so in the future the pencil can be erased and the new circuit label can be added.
 
Davebones said:
1. Safety says the breakers have to be "ON" or a " BLANK" put in its place .

2. Safety says we can't have a piece of white tape across the breaker in the open position . ( This was done just to be a quick reference when we last had power shut down and the cover removed . We eventually remove the tape sometimes it's left there till we move equipment again )
Click to expand...

The safety guy may be confusing tape across an open CB as a substitute for a LOTO--because lots of people do that instead of buying a $6 piece of plastic to put a LOTO on the CB. On the other hand, he may be ignorant or just making stuff up. The best approach is, "Where does it say that? What standard, specifically?"
 
Davebones said:
1. Safety says the breakers have to be "ON" or a " BLANK" put in its place .
Click to expand...

So say if the CB has a seasonal use (like an AC) and is turned off in the winter then the breaker needs to be removed since it's turned off? :slaphead:
 
infinity said:
So say if the CB has a seasonal use (like an AC) and is turned off in the winter then the breaker needs to be removed since it's turned off? :slaphead:
Click to expand...


I'm not understanding the rules that this "safety" guy is saying. I agree, that rule doesn't make sense.

Although I can understand that if a hazard is present when a normally-off breaker is unintentionally moved to the ON position, that the breaker should have the ability to attach a lockout/tagout device to prevent such a mistake.

For seasonal devices as you've described, I would understand that either the device should be switched off with its own dedicated device in addition to the panelboard breaker, or that the breaker should have a lockout/tagout. And in no case should a hazard be present as an immediate consequence of accidentally flipping an intentionally OFF breaker to the ON position.


I remember a job where the lockout/tagout devices were in a box right next to the big breaker in the switchboard. Instead of attaching a proper lockout device, someone grabbed a piece of cardboard, taped it to the breaker, and wrote "PLZ NO TURN ON!" on it.
 
Davebones said:
We have a 120-240v panel that one of the safety guys opened the cover to . The breakers are all identified as to what equipment they feed or marked spare if not used . We also have a piece of white tape that was put across the spare breakers in this panel so we know there is no wire on the breaker .

1. Safety says the breakers have to be "ON" or a " BLANK" put in its place .

2. Safety says we can't have a piece of white tape across the breaker in the open position . ( This was done just to be a quick reference when we last had power shut down and the cover removed . We eventually remove the tape sometimes it's left there till we move equipment again )

Does this violate OHSA or NEC requirements ???
Click to expand...

We did a Walmart remodel and they made us take out all the spare breakers and blank them off. Then to top it off, we saved all the spare breakers in a box on top of the service. Walmart threw them out stating you can't store things in the electrical room. Idiots.
 
I had a job recently where I saw they had a breaker marked "spare". When I took the cover off the panel I saw that it was both "on" and had wire attached to the breaker.
I had to go under the house and saw a NM conductor just coiled up under the floor, no tape or wire nut, no junction box. I took my "tick" tester and it lit up, showing voltage present. I then traced it and found out that this was the "spare" that was marked in the panel.

So in short, I don't think you should turn spare breakers on. I know this wasn't done properly but that could be the case anywhere. Don't turn on the breakers, or if you do, make sure the wire isn't landed on the breaker.
 
Little Bill said:
I had a job recently where I saw they had a breaker marked "spare". When I took the cover off the panel I saw that it was both "on" and had wire attached to the breaker.
I had to go under the house and saw a NM conductor just coiled up under the floor, no tape or wire nut, no junction box. I took my "tick" tester and it lit up, showing voltage present. I then traced it and found out that this was the "spare" that was marked in the panel.

So in short, I don't think you should turn spare breakers on. I know this wasn't done properly but that could be the case anywhere. Don't turn on the breakers, or if you do, make sure the wire isn't landed on the breaker.
Click to expand...
I had a house prewired for A/C with the refrigerant line set run from furnace location to most likely compressor outside location and 240 NM run to same spot. The panel end was capped off and coiled inside the panel but the inspector insisted that it be removed and stored in the wall cavity instead. :slaphead:
 
After reading a few of the scenarios in this thread I realized that there are a lot of inspectors who are lacking in training or simple common sense. :slaphead:

On commercial jobs we almost always install panels that have 42 circuit breakers installed even if only a few of them are used. That's what the customer wants and is paying for.
 
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