jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Where does NEC say this is ok
Splices in panel
- Thread starter jimwalker
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electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Splices in panel
Where does it say it is not ok?
Where does it say it is not ok?
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Splices in panel
312.8
312.8
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Splices in panel
What Ryan said. I had to look it up. My initial answer was only temporary until I found the answer.
[ February 18, 2006, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
What Ryan said. I had to look it up. My initial answer was only temporary until I found the answer.
[ February 18, 2006, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Splices in panel
This came up friday and my field super insisted it was wrong.312.8 is a bit muddy.
This came up friday and my field super insisted it was wrong.312.8 is a bit muddy.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Splices in panel
312.8 is as clear as crystal.
312.8 is as clear as crystal.
sparkslord
Member
Re: Splices in panel
You can make splices in panels as long as you do not exceed the limits within 310.8.
Just for clarification.
You can make splices in panels as long as you do not exceed the limits within 310.8.
Just for clarification.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Splices in panel
Do you mean 312.8?
Originally posted by sparkslord:
You can make splices in panels as long as you do not exceed the limits within 310.8.
Just for clarification.
Do you mean 312.8?sparkslord
Member
Re: Splices in panel
Sorry I meant 312.8
Sorry I meant 312.8
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Splices in panel
Does 312.8 actually apply?
Does 312.8 actually apply?
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Splices in panel
Yes.
Yes.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Splices in panel
It looks to me as that section only applies to 'conductors passing through or running to other switches or over current devices.'
Go easy as I had to do that out of my head, I don't have the book handy.
[ February 18, 2006, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Not so fast, read the section carefully and see if it applies to conductors that are simply running from the cable or raceway connector to the OCPD.
It looks to me as that section only applies to 'conductors passing through or running to other switches or over current devices.'
Go easy as I had to do that out of my head, I don't have the book handy.
[ February 18, 2006, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Splices in panel
I still don't see how it wouldn't apply, even after reading it.
I still don't see how it wouldn't apply, even after reading it.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Splices in panel
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Splices in panel
Please read it Charlie's way and then tell me how a conductor running into the same enclosure the OCPD is located in is covered by that section.
Bob
Well I do not see how it can apply to conductors that are not feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices,
They described the specific conductors for a reason, IMO if the section meant what you think it does all they would have to say is conductors.
Please read it Charlie's way and then tell me how a conductor running into the same enclosure the OCPD is located in is covered by that section.
Bob
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Splices in panel
OK, so enclosures for OCPD's can't be used as a j-box for "conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices." There is no rule that covers conductors not being described here, so it is permitted, right?
OK, so enclosures for OCPD's can't be used as a j-box for "conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices." There is no rule that covers conductors not being described here, so it is permitted, right?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Splices in panel
Bob,
If we read it your way, there is no restriction on splices in a panel, so I guess it really doesn't make any difference.
Don
Bob,
If we read it your way, there is no restriction on splices in a panel, so I guess it really doesn't make any difference.
Don
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Splices in panel
Don your right it may not make a difference.
The three of us are arguing what conductors that section applies to when at the same time I do not think one of us thinks that 70% fill is much of a restriction.
Bob
Don your right it may not make a difference.
The three of us are arguing what conductors that section applies to when at the same time I do not think one of us thinks that 70% fill is much of a restriction.
Bob
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Splices in panel
Bob,
You are correct that the percentages are not much of a restriction. I did the numbers once for the 40% conductor fill in a typical commercial panel...its in the hundreds of #12s.
Don
Bob,
You are correct that the percentages are not much of a restriction. I did the numbers once for the 40% conductor fill in a typical commercial panel...its in the hundreds of #12s.
Don
Re: Splices in panel
I think the question is meant to be: Where does the code say that you can or cannot make splices or joints in a panel where the conductors spliced or joined terminate in that panel?
I.E.: Extending conductors that are long enough to get into a panel but not long enough to reach the OCPD, neutral buss, or Ground buss when changing out a panel.
You know the mains and OCPD'S are a bit farther away from the top of the panel enclosure in square D and other modern panels than they are in FPE and old fuse panels. The wires have to cover more distance in the enclosure between entry and termination. Sometimes the little suckers try hard but won't quite reach.
I think the question is meant to be: Where does the code say that you can or cannot make splices or joints in a panel where the conductors spliced or joined terminate in that panel?
I.E.: Extending conductors that are long enough to get into a panel but not long enough to reach the OCPD, neutral buss, or Ground buss when changing out a panel.
You know the mains and OCPD'S are a bit farther away from the top of the panel enclosure in square D and other modern panels than they are in FPE and old fuse panels. The wires have to cover more distance in the enclosure between entry and termination. Sometimes the little suckers try hard but won't quite reach.
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