Splicing wire in breaker box

[dtshideler]

Hello everyone. I have limited knowledge in residential wiring and i need to know if it is legal to splice romex inside a breaker box. If so are there any specific methods stipulated.

 

[iwire]

Yes you can splice in panels.

 

[peter d]

If so are there any specific methods stipulated.

Preferably with a wire-nut.

Seriously though, this is kind of a persistent myth in the trade (that you can't make a splice in panel.) It's based off of a mis-use of 312.8.

 

[jamesguy10]

Ive seen wires twisted and taped . Thats a great way to do it! (kidding!)

 

[Terrynistler]

this bothers me. I would like to take a poll of the prossionals here who have found tape jobs they couldn't even get apart. They had some d--- good tape jobs before wire nuts came out. There were a few good elects in my area and I can tell them right away. I just grab the dikes and cut them off. I know better then to waste my time unless of course the wires are short.

 

[infinity]

The old friction tape splices were fine because the wires were first soldered. The tape wasn't holding the connection together it was merely insulating it. We still come across these types of splices in some of the older homes that we work in. I would estimate that many of these splices are 60-70 years old and still working.

 

[jamesguy10]

The old solder splices are aright, i was talking about joe homeowners twist the wires together and wrap em in cheap tape job (i find these frequently, actually)

 

[bill@nkapc]

Read 404.3 This may lead you not to use a panelboard as a raceway

 

[russ]

There is nothing in 404.3 or 312.8 that would leave me to believe you can't splice smaller sized conductors in the average panel.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The old friction tape splices were fine because the wires were first soldered. The tape wasn't holding the connection together it was merely insulating it.

The solder wasn't holding the splice together either.

110.14(B) Splices Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identified for the purpose.

Don

 

[John Valdes]

I always thought friction tape had no insulating qualities, just mechanical protection?

 

[jwjrw]

I was always told that a panel is a big junction box with breakers in it. I change out alot of old service panels and most the time have to extend some of the old wires. Havent failed an inspection yet.

 

[celtic]

Read 404.3 This may lead you not to use a panelboard as a raceway

Do you mean 404.3(B) ...the part where it says:

(B) Used as a Raceway.
Enclosures shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless the enclosure complies with 312.8.

So let's go back to 312.8 as directed...

312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.

Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.

The "unless adequete space" provision is the rule that allows a splice in a panelboard. So unless you have some ancient FPE panel that is still in use in question, I would think it is very safe to assume you will not reach the 40%/75% limitations in 312.8 with today's panels and a little planning.


Do you still think 404.3 is applicable?

 

[infinity]

The solder wasn't holding the splice together either.

Don

You're right. I was making an assumption that the wires were twisted together before soldering. I've never opened one of those old splices to find the wires soldered without first being twisted together.