Spot the violation(s)

[220/221]

As usual, I am fixing other peoples crap. Someone did a service upgrade/relocate in the 80's..obviously bootlegged. The used the old panel box for a JB.

Bad pics...wrong camera setting on the before pics.

This is the panel I asked about last week. It is directly over a gas meter. When they relocated the service the ran 1 1/4 emt and back fed 7 120V circuits, the 240V 50 amp A/C and a 240V 30 amp dryer.

Feed from right, A/C circuit out the left.

The neutrals were split bolted 6 to a single #8.

I changed to a real JB, pulled the back fed circuits out ( except A/C) and installed a 60 amp sub to the left. I put in GFCI breakers to protect the old 2 wire system. Maybe instead, I should have put in a 60 amp GFCI main but it JUST occured to me.

There are still some violations but this will pass. Count them up.:grin:


PS. There IS a plastic snap in bushing in the back of the JB (Peter). It just didn't show up to well in the pic. There is one in the panel also for the 3 new circuits.

 

[mdshunk]

You need a big blue snap-in knockout bushing in the back of that 3R box for the old romexes.

 

[220/221]

Read my edit :wink:

It actually WAS an old school blue one. The new black ones are more photogenic.

 

[peter d]

PS. There IS a plastic snap in bushing in the back of the JB (Peter).

Of course there is. I know you wouldn't disappoint me.

 

[iwire]

Your branch circuit conductors appear to be undersized.

 

[peter d]

Your branch circuit conductors appear to be undersized.

And since it's Arizona, I'm sure the ambient temp adjustment is on the high end of the scale.

 

[cadpoint]

Looks are just that!

Looks are just that!

Thats a full 2'-0" of conduit!
I thought the biggest ground wire in the can had to be the bounding ground!

 

[220/221]

Your branch circuit conductors appear to be undersized

??? Derating????

#12 conductors. 3, 15 amp circuits and 4, 20's.

Existing AC from service panel is 50 amp #6 thhn to SE.

I thought the biggest ground wire in the can had to be the bounding ground!

There is only one ground in there....a #10.
Wrong???

 

[iwire]

??? Derating????

I am not saying it's going to melt down but how many current carrying conductors do you have in there?

Anything over 9 will kill you on the 15 and 20s and that larger one really will take a hit.

 

[big vic]

Don't those NM cables entering the back need cable connectors....not just a snap in bushing

 

[stickboy1375]

Don't those NM cables entering the back need cable connectors....not just a snap in bushing

Yes, but apparently in AZ they just don't give a crap... :roll: :wink:

 

[mdshunk]

Yes, but apparently in AZ they just don't give a crap... :roll: :wink:

Functionally, I'm not sure what the big deal is, really. Sure, it's a violation, but what's it hurting? You can fish cables into or out of a single gang Carlon new work box during an old work situation, and they don't have connectors. I smell a proposal. It wouldn't get approved, I feel sure, but a worthy proposal just the same.

 

[peter d]

Functionally, I'm not sure what the big deal is, really. Sure, it's a violation, but what's it hurting?

I agree, this is not the kind of violation that creates a real fire or shock hazard.

 

[jerm]

It's one of those things where it's hard to properly word the exception, so no one has ever bothered.

 

[Cow]

Did you remove the paint under the lug? 250.12

 

[220/221]

I am not saying it's going to melt down but how many current carrying conductors do you have in there?

Depends on how you define "CCC". The last time it came up, the city inspector who seemed knowledgable, said neutrals didn't count. I would define neutrals as CCC's but I'm going with what he said. That makes 9

Violations:

more than 9 CCC's.
paint not scraped off under the lug.
blue wing nuts on #6 wire.
emt fittings not the new rain tite style.
no connectors in JB/panel
self tapping screw into bond jumper in panel.

It looks a heck of a lot better though :wink:

 

[frizbeedog]

Good Job

Good Job

It looks a heck of a lot better though :wink:

I know countless inspectors who let the nit picky, so called gray areas slide because it's a clean, proffesional install, and better than when you found it, based on an understanding of what's practical and safe in real world application.

It's better, safer, and closer to the intent and purpose of the code.
Advancement......Progress. Nit picking aside, Progress.

What's that saying....Rome wasn't buit in a day....or something.


Debate away. :smile:

 

[iwire]

Depends on how you define "CCC". The last time it came up, the city inspector who seemed knowledgable, said neutrals didn't count. I would define neutrals as CCC's but I'm going with what he said. That makes 9

'Real' neutrals do not count. Like the neutral in a multwire branch circuit, or the neutral in a feeder. They are not current carrying conductors.

The white wire of a two wire circuit is not a neutral, it is a grounded conductor and it is a current carrying conductor.

I would have run two or three smaller raceways to avoid the deratiing.