Sq D Q12100 main tripping

[K2X]

The boss is on vacation and i don't want to bug him.

I went to a small woodshop where the owner said his main tripped a few times last week, one time with only a few lights on. He said he had trouble resetting it taken a few times back and forths to get it to hold.

While i was there we turned on every piece of equipment that was on that panel, 220 table saw, dust collector, table sander, chop saw, and a few others. . Breaker held fine. He said that was more than he ever had on at the same time on that panel. ( he actually has a seperate 3 phase service running his bigger pieces).

So should I just change the breaker?? It just seems like I may be missing something here?.... If I do change the breaker is there anything tricky about them?? I"ve changed panels before but never a main breaker and this one looks a little old. Do they just pop out and pop back in?? Of course i know to pull the meter.

Thanks for the help..

 

[ceb58]

Did you open the panel to look at the breakers and buss bar? It could be as simple as one of the phase conductors being loose or the breaker is just old.

 

[480sparky]

What was the amp draw?

 

[cadpoint]

When you talk to the Boss next time in a quiet moment ask him about his experience or policies with
Carte Blache Service Calls ...

What's the total service to the building ?

Where the lights on that panel w/that breaker and what did they do ?

Did you crack any panels (in respects to that meter) ?

What else did you lay your eyes or hands on ?

Any metering equipment used ?

What is the machines used as opposed to not used, rotinely ?

 

[brian john]

1. Perform a fall of potential.
2. Measure current.
3. Trouble reseting right after a trip most likely out on thermal (long time).

 

[kwired]

I believe Square D has discontinued that line of breaker. You would have to replace it with todays QO2100, or buy a refurbished one. The Google search I just did only come up with refurbished ones and they were all at least twice the cost of new QO2100.

One thing that I have found with the panels of the time that this main was installed in is that the bus bars are aluminum and the breaker to bus connection usually fails.

I would look at the bus behind the main before I would even think of doing anything else with it.

 

[zog]

I believe Square D has discontinued that line of breaker. You would have to replace it with todays QO2100, or buy a refurbished one. The Google search I just did only come up with refurbished ones and they were all at least twice the cost of new QO2100.

Anyone who claims they "refirbished" that small of a breaker did not do anything more than wipe ot off and maybe test it. Reconditioning MCCB's per recognized standards costs more than that size breaker does new.

 

[kwired]

Anyone who claims they "refirbished" that small of a breaker did not do anything more than wipe ot off and maybe test it. Reconditioning MCCB's per recognized standards costs more than that size breaker does new.

I make no claim as to what refurbished means just that the Google search came up with pretty much all sites selling refurbished models on the first page of the search results. Did not see a new one or any links to Square D, and wasn't going to continue looking at further search results.

 

[jim dungar]

I believe Square D has discontinued that line of breaker.

The Q1 family was discontinued about 25 years ago.

 

[K2X]

Wow, It's really hard to log in here if your not here on a regular basis. Now i forgot what I was going to say!!

 

[kwired]

Wow, It's really hard to log in here if your not here on a regular basis. Now i forgot what I was going to say!!

Somewhere on the login page is a place to check to have your login automatic. I hardly ever log in - I think occasionally the cookie that stores login information gets cleaned out or something then I have to log in again but doesn't happen very often.

 

[K2X]

Oh yea, Thanks for the replys. I think i'll walk away from this one and suggest a friend from another company who loves this kinda stuff.

The building dates back from when Tesla blew up the Colorado Springs Dynamo and the panel looks worse than one of those "Spot the violations" panels.

No way to get a clamp on the service entrance conductors, maybe in the meter socket or the mast head.

Thanks again. As far as the boss is concerned, the call never came in.

 

[K2X]

Somewhere on the login page is a place to check to have your login automatic. I hardly ever log in - I think occasionally the cookie that stores login information gets cleaned out or something then I have to log in again but doesn't happen very often.

I participate on other forums that use the same software and have no problem. I like this forum the best so i am persistant... Maybe they want to get rid of me. Wouldn't be the first time I got booted off a forum. Oh well the world's going to end in 2012. i'm not going to worry about too much.

 

[brian john]

Anyone who claims they "refirbished" that small of a breaker did not do anything more than wipe ot off and maybe test it. Reconditioning MCCB's per recognized standards costs more than that size breaker does new.

Hey shoe polish goes a long way to improving a molded case CB.

And some resellers do use shoe polish to clean up CB's

 

[jmellc]

I would tell the boss the call came & you did what you could. Otherwise, the customer will somehow mention it next time he calls for something. Don't let the boss think you're hiding things from him. He'll start wondering if you're pocketing $ from small calls, "off the books". Keep him in the loop, even if he scolds you for not finding the problem.

Sounds like that main is aging out. If that's a discontinued panel, best to replace it with a QO or QOB. Those have been around at least 40 years and probably aren't going anywhere. Is this panel the one with funky breakers with some type of foil strip connecting to bus bar & long sharp clamps on panel covers? I don't remember the model, but it was the only junk I ever saw made by SQD. I only saw that panel in 1 place. Local SQD dealer said very few were ever sold in this area or any other he knew of.

Cutler Hammer even sells a retrofit kit to convert older panels to CH ch. Not sure if they provide universal fit, but if so, that may be easier than the work of disconnecting all the wiring & conduits, then having to term them all again. I haven't had occasion to use one yet, don't know how good they are.

 

[ceb58]

I would tell the boss the call came & you did what you could. Otherwise, the customer will somehow mention it next time he calls for something. Don't let the boss think you're hiding things from him. He'll start wondering if you're pocketing $ from small calls, "off the books". Keep him in the loop, even if he scolds you for not finding the problem.

Sounds like that main is aging out.

Cutler Hammer even sells a retrofit kit to convert older panels to CH ch. Not sure if they provide universal fit, but if so, that may be easier than the work of disconnecting all the wiring & conduits, then having to term them all again. I haven't had occasion to use one yet, don't know how good they are.

Very true in fact if I were your boss and found out you turned down work you may be in the unemployment line. This is not the time to turn work down.

The C-H retro fits work great. Just be sure and get all the info from the old panel and measurements of the can inside and out. They can match the new guts to fit the can and a new cover.

 

[jim dungar]

.... If that's a discontinued panel, best to replace it with a QO or QOB. Those have been around at least 40 years and probably aren't going anywhere.

The QO/QOB family has been around for more than 50 years. Up until the early 80's the Q1 frame was used for 70-100A breakers. Q1 breakers were twice the length (they stretched across the panel).

Is this panel the one with funky breakers with some type of foil strip connecting to bus bar & long sharp clamps on panel covers? I don't remember the model, but it was the only junk I ever saw made by SQD. I only saw that panel in 1 place. Local SQD dealer said very few were ever sold in this area or any other he knew of.

This is the EH/EHB line of breakers, used in NEHB panels. This was Square D's 480Y/277V lighting panel for more than 15 years. These breakers are still available.

 

[kbsparky]

I have at least a half-dozen of those Q1-2100TF breakers around my shop. All salvaged from service upgrades done over the past several years.

While the standard QO-2100 breakers will physically fit, the lugs are on the side, not the top like the -TF breakers are. You might have to splice the incoming lines longer when substituting the newer breaker.

 

[jmellc]

Yes, I remember now. I'd forgotten the letter codes. The setup seemed junky to me, and the long sharp panel cover clamps were begging for pinched wires.