Square D Breaker-Tie Not Available?

Status
Not open for further replies.

davedottcom

Senior Member
Does anyone know the part # for a Square D Homeline Breaker Tie?

(To tie 2 Homeline single poles together for a 240 Circuit)

I was told they are not available!? I have seen many DIY versions over the years but none that were "listed". (Usually Pieces of #10 wire!):roll:

The best one I saw was a 6-32 screw with 6-32 nuts holding it in place!

Is there ANY way to tie 2 Homeline breakers together that is permitted? :-?
 

davedottcom

Senior Member
Very cool, Thank you! (This is for Homeline not QO right?)
If so, I think I may have caused the confusion when I spoke to Square D... I ask for the part number for the "Plastic" breaker tie that comes on the 2-pole Homeline breakers.
They told me it wasn't available... they could have mentioned there was a metal one though! :cool:
 

SmithBuilt

Senior Member
Location
Foothills of NC
This rule seems a bit dangerous.

If the circuit has a short and trips one pole but not the other the load "could" still have 120 volts going thru it to ground.

Not a big deal to me but if they're going to dumb the code down why not go all the way?
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
You can use 2 single pole breakers with an identified handle tie to protect a 240 volt single phase line to line load. Check out 240.15(B)(2).

Chris

This rule seems a bit dangerous.

If the circuit has a short and trips one pole but not the other the load "could" still have 120 volts going thru it to ground.

Not a big deal to me but if they're going to dumb the code down why not go all the way?

Read the article that Chris cited.
 

davedottcom

Senior Member
This rule seems a bit dangerous.

If the circuit has a short and trips one pole but not the other the load "could" still have 120 volts going thru it to ground.

Not a big deal to me but if they're going to dumb the code down why not go all the way?


Impossible. That's what the breaker tie is for.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer - Power Systems
Impossible. That's what the breaker tie is for.
An external handle tie is not guaranteed to to open both poles when only one of them 'trips'. There is too much 'play' in the handles and the springs of one pole are usually not strong enough to operate to mechanisms.
 

TobyD

Senior Member
A double pole breaker isn't but $10.00 or less.Two single poles and a breaker handle ties would surely be just as much cost.

Many years ago a common practice was to pin Qo's together with a piece of #10 solid.Actually there was a potential danger there.I have seen one trip while the other stayed on. I 've seen piggy backs like the old Qo's turned into double pole by pining the handles.I think that was the reason for their design change.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
This rule seems a bit dangerous.

If the circuit has a short and trips one pole but not the other the load "could" still have 120 volts going thru it to ground.

Not a big deal to me but if they're going to dumb the code down why not go all the way?

If the circuit is protected by fuses instead of breakers and one blows you still have the other fuse feeding 120 volts into the circuit.

A double pole breaker isn't but $10.00 or less.Two single poles and a breaker handle ties would surely be just as much cost.

Many years ago a common practice was to pin Qo's together with a piece of #10 solid.Actually there was a potential danger there.I have seen one trip while the other stayed on. I 've seen piggy backs like the old Qo's turned into double pole by pining the handles.I think that was the reason for their design change.

you would not get 240 volts unless you connected the load to two adjacent tandems - They still have holes in the handles for handle ties on two adjacent tandems although it is likely intended more for MWBC than for a 240 volt load.
 

davedottcom

Senior Member
An external handle tie is not guaranteed to to open both poles when only one of them 'trips'. There is too much 'play' in the handles and the springs of one pole are usually not strong enough to operate to mechanisms.

ok, maybe "Impossible" was a bad choice of words! ;)

Yes, I agree, it's possible, just like it's possible for a factory assembled 2-pole to do the exact same thing... in fact I've seen it for myself... can't recall what brand it was but it was a 2-pole with only 1 side tripped (open) & 1 side still closed.

Anyway, I'm not looking for any guarantee, I'm looking to use up the 200+ single pole 20 amp breakers I already have! :D
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
A 2 pole Homeline breaker is about 6 bucks.

You have already wasted that much in labor trying to find a handle tie.:roll:
 

TobyD

Senior Member
Mr.K wired.You are correct....But that was my point on the tying of the handles.This paticular contractor would siamese these together and therefore by using phase a-b- he could achieve 40 circuits in a 20 rated box...But, that hopefully is a thing of the past...This new design Square D make that type installation nearly impossible.Well almost....I say new design...hmmm.I guess that it 20 yrs or so old...Man,I 'm one of those old guys...
 
Last edited:

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer - Power Systems
Yes, I agree, it's possible, just like it's possible for a factory assembled 2-pole to do the exact same thing... in fact I've seen it for myself... can't recall what brand it was but it was a 2-pole with only 1 side tripped (open) & 1 side still closed.
There are two types of 2-pole breakers, independent trip and common trip. The Square D family is only available as common trip, but as you pointed out other brands may not be.
 

davedottcom

Senior Member
A 2 pole Homeline breaker is about 6 bucks.

You have already wasted that much in labor trying to find a handle tie.:roll:


Ok you can loose the :roll:

Let's see, I have about 200 single pole breakers and I need a lot of 2-poles.

Option 1: Buy 100 2-poles for well over $600.00

or

Option 2: Buy 100 breaker ties at 1.75 each for $175.00

Something tells me you don't own your own business!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Mr.K wired.You are correct....But that was my point on the tying of the handles.This paticular contractor would siamese these together and therefore by using phase a-b- he could achieve 40 circuits in a 20 rated box...But, that hopefully is a thing of the past...This new design Square D make that type installation nearly impossible.Well almost....I say new design...hmmm.I guess that it 20 yrs or so old...Man,I 'm one of those old guys...

Did he have enough room on the neutral bus? Or did he double and even triple conductors in each spot?

I don't even like filling a 20/40 panel with tandems even though it is designed for it. They get really crowded sometimes.

AFCI requirements have changed this practice though.

I never understood the idea of the quad and tandem breakers seen in mobile homes often times. They must get a good price on them otherwise it usually cost me less to just buy a larger panel and use full sized breakers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top