Square D quality going down?

[VirutalElectrician]

Just received an outdoor Square D QO panel last week. Not impressed. The box is wider than the inside cover so the cover doesn't fit properly between the tabs. There's a gap at the top of the panel so there's a big open space. Lots of scratches in the finish too. This one is going back. Ordered a second one from another distributor, that one is a little better but not much.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Mexican and/or china crap

 

[Todd0x1]

I think they and all the others are cranking out gear as fast as they can and are shipping stuff they might not ordinarily ship just to keep product going out the door.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

Got bit by the Square D QO lack of quality control bug, again. This time a 40 space outdoor panel. This panel has the same issue as the two 8 space outdoor panels, the can is larger than the internal cover so it doesn't get supported properly by the tabs. The bus was also installed incorrectly, and lots of damage to the finish behind the door, so it's not coming from shipping. The door also does not fit properly.

 

[kwired]

I seen many products from other brands over many years that don't really have covers that fit as well as one would expect.

Then they keep making them out of thinner metal so if not mounted on straight enough surface or even enter with a raceway that isn't quite square with the cabinet wall you can warp the cabinet slightly and that don't help covers fit well either.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

I seen many products from other brands over many years that don't really have covers that fit as well as one would expect.

Then they keep making them out of thinner metal so if not mounted on straight enough surface or even enter with a raceway that isn't quite square with the cabinet wall you can warp the cabinet slightly and that don't help covers fit well either.

The cover issue could easily be fixed by bending out the side a little bit...That is the least of my complaints. But especially on an outdoor panel, there shouldn't be damage of the finish down the the bare metal where it's just going to rust.

The more serious safety issues are the dead front not being properly supported by the tabs, and of course, the bus not being installed properly.

I haven't bought a square D outdoor panel in over 5 years, but the ones I was buying back then had perfect fit and finish.

 

[Jraef]

Seems as though the quality of [insert any manufacturer name] is going down...

 

[User Name]

Quality of everything has been crap. I had a squareD QO816M200PFTRB earlier this year, only 1 of the 4 corners were spot welded. JUST 1! Another time I ordered 2 of that same panel again, one came with the normal grey weather cap on top, the other one was black. I said since when do they have black ones? Luckily, I had a spare grey one because they were to sit side-by-side.

Raco 4x4 boxes.... they aren't square any more, might have to switch to Steel City even though I hate their knockouts.

There's been other things here and there that I pull out of the box that make me go "oh come on". the struggle is real.

 

[electrofelon]

Just put up two SQD homerline outdoor 200A MB panels. Yeah they are crap. Door isn't square and the dead front is not punched right for the main breaker, it's like a quarter inch off.

 

[User Name]

Just put up two SQD homerline outdoor 200A MB panels. Yeah they are crap. Door isn't square and the dead front is not punched right for the main breaker, it's like a quarter inch off.

Oh yeah i've had a lot of either QO or HOM panels just not square, you go to put the interior in it and the breakers wont line up even though it's in the box, frustrating.

 

[kwired]

Quality of everything has been crap. I had a squareD QO816M200PFTRB earlier this year, only 1 of the 4 corners were spot welded. JUST 1! Another time I ordered 2 of that same panel again, one came with the normal grey weather cap on top, the other one was black. I said since when do they have black ones? Luckily, I had a spare grey one because they were to sit side-by-side.

Raco 4x4 boxes.... they aren't square any more, might have to switch to Steel City even though I hate their knockouts.

There's been other things here and there that I pull out of the box that make me go "oh come on". the struggle is real.

I've kind of been noticing that lately. Install a mud ring on them and need to put a level on it before tightening screws or your opening isn't level.

Stub a conduit out of one those boxes and you seem to usually need to pull it straight when it should naturally be pretty close to straight, wasn't sure if it was the box or the fittings doing that to me.

 

[jmellc]

A real shame. I had noticed for years that Square D and several other outdoor panels could be a bit hard to close, but that was really the only issue I had noticed.

I posted a couple of years ago about seeing I Line breakers strip out when we tightened the lugs. Had few replies if any. Granted, we should have used torqueing screwdrivers, but that had never been necessary with I Lines before. I had worked with several over the years and had no stripping issues.

Don't think I've seen the Raco boxes out of square but have long noticed that with extension rings. They can often be lopsided every which way.

 

[User Name]

A real shame. I had noticed for years that Square D and several other outdoor panels could be a bit hard to close, but that was really the only issue I had noticed.

I posted a couple of years ago about seeing I Line breakers strip out when we tightened the lugs. Had few replies if any. Granted, we should have used torqueing screwdrivers, but that had never been necessary with I Lines before. I had worked with several over the years and had no stripping issues.

Don't think I've seen the Raco boxes out of square but have long noticed that with extension rings. They can often be lopsided every which way.

I've been at this for closing in on 20 years, never had to use a torque screwdriver, until this year. Now I try to do as much as I can to torque to specs. I had some Pass and seymour devices stripping out on me, I have no idea if it was something with me that changed, or crappy construction, but I couldn't take the chance. At least if something fails now I can say, here's my torque screwdriver, here's the specs.

 

[jmellc]

I've been at this for closing in on 20 years, never had to use a torque screwdriver, until this year. Now I try to do as much as I can to torque to specs. I had some Pass and seymour devices stripping out on me, I have no idea if it was something with me that changed, or crappy construction, but I couldn't take the chance. At least if something fails now I can say, here's my torque screwdriver, here's the specs.

I seriously doubt it's you in any way. Most of us "get the feel" over the years and back off on overtightening. Plus as we age, we have less strength to do it. In our 20's, we could strip threads all day long.

 

[jaylectricity]

I think they and all the others are cranking out gear as fast as they can and are shipping stuff they might not ordinarily ship just to keep product going out the door.

Yeah, we're at a point where everybody has been back-ordered forever so it isn't surprising that they're trying to find any way to get their product to you.

 

[hillbilly1]

I’ve noticed too, the past two Square D loadcenters I put in, the covers didn’t line up with the screw holes, and the cans appeared bowed in the middle, so I would have to put the screws in at an angle to pull it back in. Maybe they have a new cover vendor? I think most of Square D’s stuff is made in Mexico now.

 

[User Name]

I’ve noticed too, the past two Square D loadcenters I put in, the covers didn’t line up with the screw holes, and the cans appeared bowed in the middle, so I would have to put the screws in at an angle to pull it back in. Maybe they have a new cover vendor? I think most of Square D’s stuff is made in Mexico now.

Yup made in Mexico. They're a real treat to hang, you can't trust any of the sides with a level, they're either bowed or spot welded wrong.

I just installed 1 of 10 Weigmann 10x10 enclosures today, stood back and my god for out square. Outside of pulling it off the wall and hoping the next one was square not much I was going to do about it. I put the cover on and had to push it on it was that bad. It's pretty bad when we can't even get a square box anymore.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

It's a shame that companies that have decades of earned quality reputation are throwing it away.

 

[Fred B]

I too have been getting a lot of panels enclosures not square, (Square D not so square) or misaligned the panel board to enclosure so cover will not sit with breakers installed, one as much as 3/8 inch. Had one that for the screws to attach the cover, the one side of breakers had totally exposing breaker wire screws. Had to ream the cover holes enough to get the cover to both sit down on breakers properly and get all the screws in. Also seeing a lot of issues with the spot weld not actually making a weld, can see it was done but didn't securely fasten.
Issues not limited to Square D.

What happened to QC ?!!

Also Getting a lot of the N/G bus screws that will not holdup to the torque specs provided. The square/ Robertson bit will spin out before reaching torque and the slotted is not enough meat to catch either. It seems the screw hardening is not consistent. Kind of wish they would just use the ECX style as you get both features in one screw, but even with a given MFG that have used ECX, they have not been consistent in its use.

 

[4x4dually]

Ordered a pair of 200A Homeline 40/80 Main Breaker panels a month ago. One came in with a cover that had the rivets sheared out of it and the other one was bent from shipping. The rivet is so small and worthless it's no wonder it sheared in transit. I swapped the cover to the other box that was damaged and got a replacement. Finally got two good panels. I'm sure they saved a whopping $.005 per panel instead of putting a larger piece of hardware in there that won't break.