standard circuit breaker sizes
- Thread starter wooden
- Start date
- Status
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Sorry, this forum is for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Engineers, Inspectors, Instructors and other electrically related individuals. It is not a site for do-it-yourselfers and this includes General Contractors.
I highly recommend you get a qualified electrician to do the work and save you money and heartache in the future. I assure you, you do not have a clue about how dangerous this work can be or how horrendous the consequences of a mistake may be for the people who purchase your homes.
Sorry, this forum is for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Engineers, Inspectors, Instructors and other electrically related individuals. It is not a site for do-it-yourselfers and this includes General Contractors.
I highly recommend you get a qualified electrician to do the work and save you money and heartache in the future. I assure you, you do not have a clue about how dangerous this work can be or how horrendous the consequences of a mistake may be for the people who purchase your homes.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Bennie, thanks, what a great answer! What always bothers me about the DIy'er is what else are they not asking?
Bennie, thanks, what a great answer! What always bothers me about the DIy'er is what else are they not asking?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
I agree 100% with what the others said. They are Aces.
I apologize for the harsh sounding welcome you received here. I received a similar welcome, and I'm still recovering from my first post. I'm not a DIY and I wrote a really nice post-- which got erased, so I just wrote a brief question-- and the ribbing began as I was a newbie and my question sounded like I didn't know my rear from a deer. I still have not earned the respect of everybody here. This post may kick me down another notch.
If you click the "About the Forum" link at the bottom of this page you will find the policies & terms & conditions (rules) of this forum. If you scroll down the page-- reading as you go along-- you will get to the statement that this forum is NOT for DIY.
I am planning to contact the webmaster and owner of this forum to make a suggestion. The problem I see is that the when you register for this forum DIY's are not turned away and are allowed through the gate. Then the DIY gets up to the clubhouse and gets gigged, ribbed, tarred & feathered. It is humiliating. Been there, done that.
I want answers, and these NEC educated folks have the answers I need. That's why I keep coming back. There is not a lot of humor. This place and electricity is serious as a heart attack-- as it should be.
Here is a wild idea: Maybe there should be a fee-based "ask the experts" forum here. There could be a panel of experts that would process a question, and then vote on the right answer. Answers would be guaranteed to meet the NEC. Many of the experts here are professional electrical inspectors. Their word would be that of an expert. The answers would be guaranteed or your money back.
I just don't think showing DIY's to the door is the proper response. There must be a kindler, gentler way, (or don't allow them to register).
FYI: There is a DIY user friendly electrical forum-- but it's not staffed by the caliber of experts that you will find here. Here is a link:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/wiring
Any help you get from that forum should be taken with a grain of salt and should be cross-checked with your AHJ before proceeding with the advice.
The inspector or plan checker in your town will tell you what is required-- if you put some honey on it. They won't tell you how to do it, but they will tell you what's right and what's wrong.
The pros are here on this forum (mikeholt.com). Even here, you should cross-check any advice with your AHJ. This forum is for Code Answers & brainstorming for solutions to meet the code-- but the AHJ has the final say and should always be consulted prior to implementing a new concept.
AHJ=Authority Having Jurisdiction (the inspector, power company, or such).
You should be commended for seeking an answer to your question. If your question was simple & to the point you might have gotten an answer here. They just want you to be safe.
I hope this post is helpful. If anybody has any issues with anything said here, please send me a PM and I will edit this post in a jiffy.
PS: There is a cheat sheet called "Code Check Electrical" by Redwood Kardon, Douglas Hansen, & Michael Casey. Redwood was a plan checker & inspector for the City Of Oakland, CA. Many plan checkers use the cheat sheet too for the easy questions. http://www.codecheck.com
Please don't do any electrical work if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing. Pull a permit. Have it inspected. I pull permits on all my jobs--big or small-- even at my own house. The electrical inspector is your best ally-- and will help you make it safe for you & your family.
[ September 16, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
I agree 100% with what the others said. They are Aces.
I apologize for the harsh sounding welcome you received here. I received a similar welcome, and I'm still recovering from my first post. I'm not a DIY and I wrote a really nice post-- which got erased, so I just wrote a brief question-- and the ribbing began as I was a newbie and my question sounded like I didn't know my rear from a deer. I still have not earned the respect of everybody here. This post may kick me down another notch.
If you click the "About the Forum" link at the bottom of this page you will find the policies & terms & conditions (rules) of this forum. If you scroll down the page-- reading as you go along-- you will get to the statement that this forum is NOT for DIY.
I am planning to contact the webmaster and owner of this forum to make a suggestion. The problem I see is that the when you register for this forum DIY's are not turned away and are allowed through the gate. Then the DIY gets up to the clubhouse and gets gigged, ribbed, tarred & feathered. It is humiliating. Been there, done that.
I want answers, and these NEC educated folks have the answers I need. That's why I keep coming back. There is not a lot of humor. This place and electricity is serious as a heart attack-- as it should be.
Here is a wild idea: Maybe there should be a fee-based "ask the experts" forum here. There could be a panel of experts that would process a question, and then vote on the right answer. Answers would be guaranteed to meet the NEC. Many of the experts here are professional electrical inspectors. Their word would be that of an expert. The answers would be guaranteed or your money back.
I just don't think showing DIY's to the door is the proper response. There must be a kindler, gentler way, (or don't allow them to register).
FYI: There is a DIY user friendly electrical forum-- but it's not staffed by the caliber of experts that you will find here. Here is a link:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/wiring
Any help you get from that forum should be taken with a grain of salt and should be cross-checked with your AHJ before proceeding with the advice.
The inspector or plan checker in your town will tell you what is required-- if you put some honey on it. They won't tell you how to do it, but they will tell you what's right and what's wrong.
The pros are here on this forum (mikeholt.com). Even here, you should cross-check any advice with your AHJ. This forum is for Code Answers & brainstorming for solutions to meet the code-- but the AHJ has the final say and should always be consulted prior to implementing a new concept.
AHJ=Authority Having Jurisdiction (the inspector, power company, or such).
You should be commended for seeking an answer to your question. If your question was simple & to the point you might have gotten an answer here. They just want you to be safe.
I hope this post is helpful. If anybody has any issues with anything said here, please send me a PM and I will edit this post in a jiffy.
PS: There is a cheat sheet called "Code Check Electrical" by Redwood Kardon, Douglas Hansen, & Michael Casey. Redwood was a plan checker & inspector for the City Of Oakland, CA. Many plan checkers use the cheat sheet too for the easy questions. http://www.codecheck.com
Please don't do any electrical work if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing. Pull a permit. Have it inspected. I pull permits on all my jobs--big or small-- even at my own house. The electrical inspector is your best ally-- and will help you make it safe for you & your family.
[ September 16, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Most of the active participants, on this forum, are certified as professional and experts in the trade. The legal liability is extensive, when dealing with non-professional individuals.
All of the responses are in writing and any incorrect advice that leads to an injury, or worse, can easily be proven.
Some of the responses can be misunderstood by the lay person.
If I tell someone it is OK to work on a busbar, and I do not tell them to shut off the power, and they get hurt, I will lose a law suit and all my personal possessions, including my old one eyed dog.
[ September 16, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
Most of the active participants, on this forum, are certified as professional and experts in the trade. The legal liability is extensive, when dealing with non-professional individuals.
All of the responses are in writing and any incorrect advice that leads to an injury, or worse, can easily be proven.
Some of the responses can be misunderstood by the lay person.
If I tell someone it is OK to work on a busbar, and I do not tell them to shut off the power, and they get hurt, I will lose a law suit and all my personal possessions, including my old one eyed dog.
[ September 16, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
...and we can't have Bennie losing his one eyed dog. That would just be wrong.
Not picking at you Wooden, but I would like to ask a few simple questions. Just out of curiosity.
Do you do your own taping?
How about painting?
Trim carpentry?
Carpet laying?
In my experience, DIY'ers and more than a few small contractors will sub out all of the above, but have no problem strapping on the apron and trying their hand at electrical and plumbing. I've always been a bit perplexed, not to mention a bit freightened by that phenomena.
...and we can't have Bennie losing his one eyed dog. That would just be wrong.
Not picking at you Wooden, but I would like to ask a few simple questions. Just out of curiosity.
Do you do your own taping?
How about painting?
Trim carpentry?
Carpet laying?
In my experience, DIY'ers and more than a few small contractors will sub out all of the above, but have no problem strapping on the apron and trying their hand at electrical and plumbing. I've always been a bit perplexed, not to mention a bit freightened by that phenomena.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
It is very easy to make things things work, white to white, black to black etc.
The hard part and the part that requires electrician's to go to classes and work in the field is how to make it work safely.
Much of what an electrician does and knows has nothing to do with making the lights and doorbell work, it has to do with grounding, bonding, overcurrent, ground fault, arc fault protection, the list goes on.
How many times do we (electricians) see self done work without the grounds made up because "you don't need them to make it work"
I do not think if any of these self wired houses got a real inspection that they would pass.
JMO, Bob
Most anyone can do a job if given the proper information.
It is very easy to make things things work, white to white, black to black etc.
The hard part and the part that requires electrician's to go to classes and work in the field is how to make it work safely.
Much of what an electrician does and knows has nothing to do with making the lights and doorbell work, it has to do with grounding, bonding, overcurrent, ground fault, arc fault protection, the list goes on.
How many times do we (electricians) see self done work without the grounds made up because "you don't need them to make it work"
I do not think if any of these self wired houses got a real inspection that they would pass.
JMO, Bob
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
woody,
do you know of a book that might tell me how many yards of concrete it will take to build my house. how many 2 x 4's.. where do i place the truss anchors... how many nails for the roof.... what height do the windows lay out..... what should the slab heighth be???????????
from the question you asked --- a qualified electrician can determine "you need help" --- get a licensed electrician to do your work--it'll be cheaper in the end!!!
woody,
do you know of a book that might tell me how many yards of concrete it will take to build my house. how many 2 x 4's.. where do i place the truss anchors... how many nails for the roof.... what height do the windows lay out..... what should the slab heighth be???????????
from the question you asked --- a qualified electrician can determine "you need help" --- get a licensed electrician to do your work--it'll be cheaper in the end!!!
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
charlie t:
Actually I’ve built three houses and the other trades were more that forth coming with all the information I needed. This is the one trade (electrical) where I've seen a closed mouth approach to DIY’ers. I don't do residential, though I have, and I understand the concern about giving information to the untrained.
charlie t:
Actually I’ve built three houses and the other trades were more that forth coming with all the information I needed. This is the one trade (electrical) where I've seen a closed mouth approach to DIY’ers. I don't do residential, though I have, and I understand the concern about giving information to the untrained.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Not to say the other trades do not have details to worry about, but bad painting, sheet rocking, roofing, flooring has probably never killed anyone.
I think there are to many details to our trade to try to explain it to the unqualified.
Not to say the other trades do not have details to worry about, but bad painting, sheet rocking, roofing, flooring has probably never killed anyone.
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Caution must be word, when giving advice to laymen.
One time a laborer ask me how he could safely cut down an overhead line to a well pump, without turning off the breaker. I told him to get on a wooden ladder and cut the wires one at a time.
The next day, he was mad as hell at me, he said that he stood on a wooden ladder and when he cut the wire it jolted him so hard his hand came off of the vent pipe.
Another person asked me if it was safe to change a light fixture by turning the switch off, I said sure its safe. He jumped me the next day and said he turned the light off and got knocked off the ladder when he disconnected the wiring. I asked him was he sure the switch was off, he said " of course I pulled the chain at the end of the fixture and it went off".
Caution must be word, when giving advice to laymen.
One time a laborer ask me how he could safely cut down an overhead line to a well pump, without turning off the breaker. I told him to get on a wooden ladder and cut the wires one at a time.
The next day, he was mad as hell at me, he said that he stood on a wooden ladder and when he cut the wire it jolted him so hard his hand came off of the vent pipe.
Another person asked me if it was safe to change a light fixture by turning the switch off, I said sure its safe. He jumped me the next day and said he turned the light off and got knocked off the ladder when he disconnected the wiring. I asked him was he sure the switch was off, he said " of course I pulled the chain at the end of the fixture and it went off".
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Wooden,
The question of "standard size circuit breaker one should use for a new home for various appliances (ie. sump pump, furnace, a/c, dishwasher, garbage disp., etc.)?" indicated to us that your knowledge of a residential electrical distribution system is marginal at best.
With all due respect our biggest concern is your safety as well as your loved ones. The dumbest questions that there are the ones that are not asked. At least you had the courage to ask the question, a question that is not that simple to answer.
As a professional, electricians understand that they must consider the electrical loads that are to be served, the correct size of conductor that they need to use to serve the load and to correctly size a breaker to protect the cable for the possibility of and overload or short circuit. Consideration must also be given on how cable is routed and secured in addition to any derating that needs to be considered for ambient temperature and the number of conductors that are run in a raceway may cause the electrician to increase the size of the conductor.
Yes, it may be as simple as running a section of 14/2 w/gr NM-B from point 'A' to point 'B' and protect the cable with a 1P-15at breaker. But, them again, it may not be that simple. All to often questions are asked by some in a way to get the answer which they wanted to hear when there is actually much more to the story. For any of us were would be like handing an unqualified person with a loaded gun.
PLEASE get a qualified person, such as a licensed electrician, to consult with.
Wooden,
The question of "standard size circuit breaker one should use for a new home for various appliances (ie. sump pump, furnace, a/c, dishwasher, garbage disp., etc.)?" indicated to us that your knowledge of a residential electrical distribution system is marginal at best.
With all due respect our biggest concern is your safety as well as your loved ones. The dumbest questions that there are the ones that are not asked. At least you had the courage to ask the question, a question that is not that simple to answer.
As a professional, electricians understand that they must consider the electrical loads that are to be served, the correct size of conductor that they need to use to serve the load and to correctly size a breaker to protect the cable for the possibility of and overload or short circuit. Consideration must also be given on how cable is routed and secured in addition to any derating that needs to be considered for ambient temperature and the number of conductors that are run in a raceway may cause the electrician to increase the size of the conductor.
Yes, it may be as simple as running a section of 14/2 w/gr NM-B from point 'A' to point 'B' and protect the cable with a 1P-15at breaker. But, them again, it may not be that simple. All to often questions are asked by some in a way to get the answer which they wanted to hear when there is actually much more to the story. For any of us were would be like handing an unqualified person with a loaded gun.
PLEASE get a qualified person, such as a licensed electrician, to consult with.
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
i am going to join the bandwagon here wooden, here in this forum it is the electrican fourm is being used by all the electrican all over the world. yeah i will admit it i am oringally from france. but their rules about electrican( in france ) is very strict and we genrally don't say too much at all for advise or few other tips beside for estame or do actaul work. wooden , please do understand this. we spend alot of time training to stick to NEC code , State , Local codes as need and over the time it never fail that we electrican spend more time follow the rules than other trades can do.
dont get me wrong but you have to understand it before you ever try adtemt {sp} do this and we do try help other electrican, enginners , inspecters here . and wooden if you say genral contrater please understand the rules when you sign in, they are very strict with it and if the moditors here watching here and feel not right the mod. can lock the post here, so wooden please do the right way just get the electrical contactors. it is far more cheaper and safer for you then try to atempt it yourself .
sorry for long post here but just want make a good point here
merci, marc
i am going to join the bandwagon here wooden, here in this forum it is the electrican fourm is being used by all the electrican all over the world. yeah i will admit it i am oringally from france. but their rules about electrican( in france ) is very strict and we genrally don't say too much at all for advise or few other tips beside for estame or do actaul work. wooden , please do understand this. we spend alot of time training to stick to NEC code , State , Local codes as need and over the time it never fail that we electrican spend more time follow the rules than other trades can do.
dont get me wrong but you have to understand it before you ever try adtemt {sp} do this and we do try help other electrican, enginners , inspecters here . and wooden if you say genral contrater please understand the rules when you sign in, they are very strict with it and if the moditors here watching here and feel not right the mod. can lock the post here, so wooden please do the right way just get the electrical contactors. it is far more cheaper and safer for you then try to atempt it yourself .
sorry for long post here but just want make a good point here
merci, marc
G
Guest
Guest
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
[...awwt thinking again...note to self: Finish up 1000 question DIY intake questionaire that fleshes out the real question...the questions that are left out by the DIY...when the DIY is looking for answer to match his/her question...]
[...awwt thinking again...note to self: Finish up 1000 question DIY intake questionaire that fleshes out the real question...the questions that are left out by the DIY...when the DIY is looking for answer to match his/her question...]
Re: standard circuit breaker sizes
Wooden,
You've gotten off to a bad start here. You say, "it just has to pass inspection". Are you a proffesional? Is that your attitude?
And you say, "allows homeowners to wire their own homes". Note the words "their own homes".
As for your actual question, there is a book and it's called "The National Electrical Code". Other than that, "Wiring Simplified" by Richter would be a good start. Go to your local libary and check out some books. Another website is doityourself.com moderated by John Nelson.
It would be nice to have a simple list but your variety "sump pump, furnace, a/c, dishwasher, garbage disp." isn't very specific. Namely, how big is each appliance? The general rule is the bigger the appliance, the bigger the breaker.
~Peter
Wooden,
You've gotten off to a bad start here. You say, "it just has to pass inspection". Are you a proffesional? Is that your attitude?
And you say, "allows homeowners to wire their own homes". Note the words "their own homes".
As for your actual question, there is a book and it's called "The National Electrical Code". Other than that, "Wiring Simplified" by Richter would be a good start. Go to your local libary and check out some books. Another website is doityourself.com moderated by John Nelson.
It would be nice to have a simple list but your variety "sump pump, furnace, a/c, dishwasher, garbage disp." isn't very specific. Namely, how big is each appliance? The general rule is the bigger the appliance, the bigger the breaker.
~Peter
- Status