stapling NM wire in MA
- Thread starter wire1
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bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
I use Diagonal wire cutters to grab an edge and pry up.
Bill
I use Diagonal wire cutters to grab an edge and pry up.
Bill
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
Have you seen this "requirement" on paper? I would ask for a code reference before I went around pulling out every staple in the building.
Have you seen this "requirement" on paper? I would ask for a code reference before I went around pulling out every staple in the building.
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
527 CMR 12:00 2002 Mass Code Amendments
Section 334.30 "Where staples are used for cable sizes smaller thanthree 8AWG conductors, they shall be of the insulating type, or listed noninsulated staples driven by staple guns shall be permitted.
CJP
527 CMR 12:00 2002 Mass Code Amendments
Section 334.30 "Where staples are used for cable sizes smaller thanthree 8AWG conductors, they shall be of the insulating type, or listed noninsulated staples driven by staple guns shall be permitted.
CJP
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
Is that grand-fathered? It looks to me like the cable would have already been damaged if it were going to be and pulling staples would damage it if it weren't already.
Is that grand-fathered? It looks to me like the cable would have already been damaged if it were going to be and pulling staples would damage it if it weren't already.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
Some idiots have way too much time on their hands if they put that rule on the books.
Some idiots have way too much time on their hands if they put that rule on the books.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. If you drive the staple so hard that it damages the conductor, you have already violated article 334.
That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. If you drive the staple so hard that it damages the conductor, you have already violated article 334.
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
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i agree with paul. code isn't retroactive unless imminent hazard and correction needed, or possibly unpermitted work. see it on paper. can sue and win case for lost time, expenses, etc if you want to go that route.
cited code section mentions nothing about tape. staples would have to have been installed after adopted date (permit pulled after adopted date).
the actual best tool overall for pulling taples is one of those pincher type nail pullers. looks like a holdover from the blacksmith days. looks like a side cutter blade turned in on itself. anything that allows you to grab the staple edge without putting pressure on the wires.
as an aside, i can't count the number of times i have seen carpenters using hammer claws under the staple. really p*ssed me off, but what could i do after that other than bring it up to gc with witnesses, request for other places where that occurred.
paul
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i agree with paul. code isn't retroactive unless imminent hazard and correction needed, or possibly unpermitted work. see it on paper. can sue and win case for lost time, expenses, etc if you want to go that route.
cited code section mentions nothing about tape. staples would have to have been installed after adopted date (permit pulled after adopted date).
the actual best tool overall for pulling taples is one of those pincher type nail pullers. looks like a holdover from the blacksmith days. looks like a side cutter blade turned in on itself. anything that allows you to grab the staple edge without putting pressure on the wires.
as an aside, i can't count the number of times i have seen carpenters using hammer claws under the staple. really p*ssed me off, but what could i do after that other than bring it up to gc with witnesses, request for other places where that occurred.
paul
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
I think wire1 means replace the staples on the new work,
Having lived in MA all my life I can tell you that non-insulated staples on small NM is a instant fail of rough inspection.
They just recently added
I would hate to have roughed a house with the wrong staples, that is a major pain.
I think wire1 means replace the staples on the new work,
not any existing staples.
Having lived in MA all my life I can tell you that non-insulated staples on small NM is a instant fail of rough inspection.
They just recently added
I don't even think about it, they are readily available.
I would hate to have roughed a house with the wrong staples, that is a major pain.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
Seems like ya gotta reed thu question right or ya give thu wong anser.
Seems like ya gotta reed thu question right or ya give thu wong anser.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
The easiest way to remove staples I have found (like Bill says) would be to use a pair of diagonal cutters. Either bite the side of the staple and use the dikes as a lever to pull out the staples or just cut the staple on one side and bend the top up, remove the wire, then pull out the staple. Either way crappy job. Welcome to Massachusetts, we do it our way! Oh also, barrel lugs are not required at all. Green wirenuts are fine and in my opinion better. Any other Mass questions let me know.
The easiest way to remove staples I have found (like Bill says) would be to use a pair of diagonal cutters. Either bite the side of the staple and use the dikes as a lever to pull out the staples or just cut the staple on one side and bend the top up, remove the wire, then pull out the staple. Either way crappy job. Welcome to Massachusetts, we do it our way!
Oh also, barrel lugs are not required at all. Green wirenuts are fine and in my opinion better. Any other Mass questions let me know.jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
I dont see any room to argue if its a local code and is printed,printed is the key word,and was available.
I have in over 22 years only used insulated if the finished product had to look pretty.I have never had problems over using standard staples ,yes a few might hurt the wire and those wires are replaced.Like maybe 1 wire gets hurt in 10 houses.It is a skill not to do damage.
Does some ones brotherinlaw sell insulated staples ?What a waste of time and money
I dont see any room to argue if its a local code and is printed,printed is the key word,and was available.
I have in over 22 years only used insulated if the finished product had to look pretty.I have never had problems over using standard staples ,yes a few might hurt the wire and those wires are replaced.Like maybe 1 wire gets hurt in 10 houses.It is a skill not to do damage.
Does some ones brotherinlaw sell insulated staples ?What a waste of time and money
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
Somebody is going to say, "these staples are insulated so it doesn't matter how hard I hammer them", and wind up damaging cable more than properly used uninsulated ones. Go figure.
Somebody is going to say, "these staples are insulated so it doesn't matter how hard I hammer them", and wind up damaging cable more than properly used uninsulated ones. Go figure.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
I have only damaged a couple of cables in five years with staples (I am no longer working in the trade). I have always been of the opinion that the staples were to secure and support the cable, not to hold it tight. Therefore, I drove them to just contact the cable (you could easily pull the cable out from under my staples).
I would be interested to see if anyone disagrees with my method.
I have only damaged a couple of cables in five years with staples (I am no longer working in the trade). I have always been of the opinion that the staples were to secure and support the cable, not to hold it tight. Therefore, I drove them to just contact the cable (you could easily pull the cable out from under my staples).
I would be interested to see if anyone disagrees with my method.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
So as long as only a few staples damage the wire evrything is ok?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: stapling NM wire in MA
yes provided you replace the ones you damage.The idea is to just hold the wire not crush it.
yes provided you replace the ones you damage.The idea is to just hold the wire not crush it.
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