Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

[tonyi]

In the ongoing saga of bringing my mom's place in south FL up to some reasonable approximation of the 2002 code, I finally got around to putting the bathroom recepticals on dedicated 20A branches (both bath's, two outside recep, outside lights, garage lights and recp had all been on the same #14/15A branch previously).

I figure, what the heck, I'll try to use the old #14 as a fish to pull the new #12 down, its always worth a shot. Well it worked fine the new #12 slipped right through, but the old #14 came out of the wall covered with what
appeared to be duct tape goo. Then later cutting an old work box for a switch somewhere else I was able to see inside a wall and confirm for sure that yes indeed there was duct tape being used to fasten wire to the steel studs.

I've tie wrapped rope, but duct tape?!?

 

[roger]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Tony, when was this dwelling built?

Roger

 

[caj1962]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

DUCT TAPE USERS WILL RULE THE WORLD SOMEDAY.
In all seriousness though, is duct tape illegal by code? I was trying to find a code section that would make it so but other than "approved means as support" or if as the title of your post indicates the romex ran horzontially through metal studs and this was used in place of the grommets that are required. What is the issue?

 

[tonyi]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by roger:
Tony, when was this dwelling built?

Roger

1989.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by caj1962:
DUCT TAPE USERS WILL RULE THE WORLD SOMEDAY.
In all seriousness though, is duct tape illegal by code? I was trying to find a code section that would make it so but other than "approved means as support" or if as the title of your post indicates the romex ran horzontially through metal studs and this was used in place of the grommets that are required. What is the issue?

This was a verticle drop down from the attic. There was a normal steel stud snap-in grommet on the top plate, so that part was OK. It looks like these guys were using the duct tape to strap the Romex to the studs for the verticle runs up to the attic.

I've never seen this "creative strapping technique" used before. Is there a UL listed duct tape?

 

[iwire]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Tony there is no requirement for NM supports to be UL listed. (the grommets yes) 300.4(B)(1)

 

[tonyi]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by iwire:
Tony there is no requirement for NM supports to be UL listed. (the grommets yes) 300.4(B)(1)

Duct tape appears to be "pushing the elvelope" for the "or similar fittings" language in 334.30 awful hard though (IMO).

I suppose I shouldn't complain - I didn't have to take the wall apart or do anything too unpleasant to get the new stuff in because of it . Still, it just seems incredibly sleazy when a cable tie would have done the same job and they're explicitly allowed.

 

[tim]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

If it is a vertical run in the wall, why or who cares if it is secured? Once the house is finished, the wire will not go anywhere anyway.

 

[websparky]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

When being built, this would apply: 300.4(D).

But, in the scenario above, you're right.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by tim:
If it is a vertical run in the wall, why or who cares if it is secured? Once the house is finished, the wire will not go anywhere anyway.

The guy bearing down on a sheetrock knife, using a jigsaw, or Rotozip to cut a hole cares a lot. Unsecured verticle runs can be dangerous - this is why they're only allowed when fishing in old work type stuff.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Tony, I certainly do not disagree with your statement regarding unsecured runs, I want to be clear about that.

I do beleive, that the contrary is true also though, to an extent. I think the most dangerous part of a vertical run can be the point of support, as there is no ability for the conductor to move should something hit it.

Code is code, however and the NM must be supported unless fished. That requirement is a good one.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by ryan_618:
I do beleive, that the contrary is true also though, to an extent. I think the most dangerous part of a vertical run can be the point of support, as there is no ability for the conductor to move should something hit it.

Yep - this is undoubtedly why the general setback from the edge requirements exist. Someone cutting into rock shouldn't be in danger of zapping something unless they're so unlucky (or careless) as to be right up against where something is entering a box facing the other side of a wall.

 

[roger]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by tonyi:

Originally posted by tim:
If it is a vertical run in the wall, why or who cares if it is secured? Once the house is finished, the wire will not go anywhere anyway.

The guy bearing down on a sheetrock knife, using a jigsaw, or Rotozip to cut a hole cares a lot. Unsecured verticle runs can be dangerous - this is why they're only allowed when fishing in old work type stuff.

Yep - this is undoubtedly why the general setback from the edge requirements exist. Someone cutting into rock shouldn't be in danger of zapping something unless they're so unlucky (or careless) as to be right up against where something is entering a box facing the other side of a wall.

Why do people keep cutting into the walls after your done?


Don't be saying they may add something later.

Unless specificaly designed for, we can't control what will happen in the future.

Roger

 

[russellroberts]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

When you start cutting into sheetrock,I always expect the worst.Sometimes an hours worth of recon looking for plumbing,gas lines and such,and a little finesse go a long way.

You can't "idiot proof" any installation. Some folks will blindly cut into a wall and "tear up Jack" no matter how careful the original installer is.


Russell

 

[tonyi]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Originally posted by roger:
Why do people keep cutting into the walls after your done?

Don't be saying they may add something later.

Unless specificaly designed for, we can't control what will happen in the future.

Roger

In these days of DSL, CATV, 2nd and 3rd phone lines and home networking, I don't think its unreasonable to expect walls to be getting cut into. And yes, people DO add things later because the code minimums are inadequate in today's reality.

There's also the common matter of people having to patch rock where someone body slammed a hole in it, or some pet clawed its way through.

 

[hillbilly]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Most of my work is additions and small add on's on older homes (40-80 years). If you've ever worked "plaster and lath" and "Rat boards" you know what a PITA it is, although it pays good.
steve

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Steel stud, Romex & duct tape

Before they went inhouse trades ,Maronda homes here in florida.We wired 100`s and 100`s of metal stud homes.our inspectors would flip if they saw duct tape used.To use tie wraps that would mean having to drill holes to keep the nm centered on the stud to comply with 300 4 d.We used one hole stand offs.one screw to hold then on the stud and clip the loop and done deal.Duct tape does lose its grip over time especially in this climate.