Storm Damage

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jeff43222

Senior Member
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
So we had a big storm the other night, and where I live/work, there are lots of huge trees. Several of them came down during the storm, and my friend's neighbor was one of the unlucky ones. A big tree came down on top of the her overhead service drop, breaking the PVC mast off at the meter hub. Surprisingly, none of the wires got disconnected, and I didn't find any damage to the insulation.

POCO sent out some tree contractors to clear away enough of the fallen tree to get access to the service drop wires, but they wouldn't touch it until the lines were de-energized at the pole. Meanwhile, since the homeowner still had power, POCO wouldn't sent anyone out for a while (weeks), as their priority was people whose power was out. So POCO's stance was that leaving the live service drop wires draped across the backyard deck, under a fallen tree, and right in front of the back door at knee level was OK with them.

I felt it was a safety issue that should be corrected ASAP (homeowner agreed heartily), so I disconnected the house from the service drop, carefully cleared away enough of the tree to get access to the wires, built a new mast, and pulled POCO's wires back to the house, where I reattached the service. The homeowner was without power for 1.5 hours at most, while doing it POCO's way would have been much more unsafe and inconvenient.

I ran into a guy at the supply house this morning, and he said he did two just like it yesterday and had one more scheduled today. I'm curious if other contractors around the country do this kind of thing, and if so, whether POCO gets upset at us infringing on their turf. Technically, I probably shouldn't have pulled/attached POCO's wires to the house myself, but I think what I did was correct a safety problem much faster than POCO would have.
 
Re: Storm Damage

What you describe seems most inappropriate and possibly illegal depending on where you have performed this work. I know there are some areas of the country where electricians are permitted or even required to make utility connections, but certainly not here in Florida.

If a task is out of the scope of work as defined by the licensing board whom you obtained your license, you are also out of the scope of your insurance policy and possibly out of the scope of your qualifications. This could lead to quite serious problems for you in the future.

There are probably other ways to make a condition safe without having to resort to another unsafe act. Convienence of the customer is only one consideration for any given situation.
 
Re: Storm Damage

Under those conditions yes i would do it.Not saying legal and questionably safe.Personally i think the poco was at risk of being sued had anyone got hurt or had a neutral let go or break.When Andrew went thru Homestead and part of East Naples i seen something just as scary.On a mobile we had sold and carrying mortgage there on the ground was the over head drop.They were lucky in that it had butt splices that pulled out.The buyer thought the wire was dead.Far from it.We called the poco and i explained it to them.Took a few hours but they arrived and reattached.They are short staffed under hurricanes so not likely the poco or ahj will say anything about your helping.
 
Re: Storm Damage

I would have done the samething! If the POCO can't handle an issue in a reasonable time, then I don't see a problem here. (Yes I understand a resonable time will vary depending on weather, etc.) My guess is that when the issue was called in, the operator taking the call didn't fully understand the actuall problem and didn't give it a priority since there was actual power to the house. Some of these people taking the calls are not properly trained and have no additional electrical knowledge then the average home owner.
 
Re: Storm Damage

I know POCO doesn't have a problem with me connecting their incoming wires to the ones coming out of the service head. Once when I was doing a service upgrade, the POCO lineman even gave me some Farga clamps so I could reconnect to their wires once I had the new mast/wires in place. After it gets inspected, POCO comes out and replaces the clamps I put on with more permanent crimp-style ones. In some jurisdictions, the master electrician can sign an affidavit and fax it to POCO instead of having to have an inspector sign off on it. Local AHJ gets to decide who can certify an installation as safe for permanent connection.

The only thing I did that's questionable here is my hooking up the messenger wire back to the house. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that it's a POCO-only job. Still, I stand by what I did, since I acted to remedy an unsafe situation. My feeling is that POCO blew off the homeowner and might only have acted if they had a licensed electrician raising a ruckus. I'm sure if I called POCO and asked them, they'd tell me to never, ever do that again.

Any POCO people here who might want to weigh in?
 
Re: Storm Damage

Normal occurance here. "Temp" customer in, then call inspector who calls POCO to make connections permanent.
 
Re: Storm Damage

I would've advised the homeowner to send the bill to the POCO. When they are overwhelmed it is reasonable for them to get some additional help (for a price of course).
 
Re: Storm Damage

I think you did the right thing, but its a big no-no in my area. The poco gets testy when i pull the meter sometimes.Even temp power must be called in by the inspector.
 
Re: Storm Damage

I would've advised the homeowner to send the bill to the POCO.
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If you wish to reconnect in our area, go for it. However, we are not going to pay for the work since it is only temporary and we have to remake the connections. Keep in mind that you are doing this work without permission. During a storm, we always put the out of power customers in front of the customers with lights. If you cut the drop, repair the service equipment, and leave the customer without power, then we will put them in line to get restored with all the other customers who are without power.

As far as you insurance, talk to your agent and find out what your policy covers. :D
 
Re: Storm Damage

Ok Guys, I wanted to wait for a few replies to be posted before I weighed in.
I work for the local POCO, & I am a Restoration Coordinator. My job is to analize the damage / outages in each geographical area, & respond with the appropriate Personnel & Equipment.
Although each area has different rules, I find it hard to believe ANY Utility would give any of Us the OK to take a service drop from the ground, pull it up on the house, & reconnect.
Here are a few facts We use in determining the responses to each type of trouble call.
Wire Down calls : These calls are Our FIRST priority to check. We have been instructed that they would take priority over a Hospital.
There are 2 types of wire down calls. Outage & Non Outage. All We can do is go by past knowledge, & experience, and the "Non Outage" Wire Down calls are 95% TV or Phone drops.
The "Outage" calls will always be looked at first, They are most likely to involve some of Our conductor, & are likely to be the most urgent.
We have a Public Safety Response Team comprised of Meter Readers, Inspectors, & anyone else who can identify the different types of Utility lines. They are very quickly mobilized, & have caution tape, cones etc to safe guard an area.
If they come upon a wire down, They stay with it until a Trained Tech can show up to make repairs.
After the storm blows through an area, it's not uncommon to have over 100 wire down calls. They are looked at as soon as possible, but it's impossible to know which are the most urgent.
Many times the Customers give incomplete information, & it's unable to know of these conditions.
After covering these calls, We move onto Our larger outages, & work Our way down the list until everyone has been restored.
Guys...Please be careful in doing this type of work. In many places there's older style construction, where the secondaries are on the top of the poles, & the primary is below.
This could cause the service to be energized at a much higher voltage, or from a back fed source.
The most helpful thing that could be done, is to secure the area, & call in with exact details of the damage. Notes from a qualified EC would be welcomed, & added to the Trouble Call.
 
Re: Storm Damage

okay, we know that the service wires weren't energized by a higher voltage. This wasn't a homeowner messing with their wires. The wires were still being utilized.

In Ca where PG&E is somewhat restrictive, they put locks on meters where people steal power or have messed with the utility wiring.

In the area where I mostly worked, PG&E wanted to do the hook-up, But i worked for another EC that always did the jump-over for new panels with service-rated piercing connectors ( I never used them and can't remember the name) and PG&E would come by later, hook up the power and give the connectors to the owner to give to the contractor to use again. The owner did not have to wait for power, and the poco could do as suited to their time table. This was very dense SF Bay area urban. (this was after passing inspection)

In some areas the poco is extremely rigid and other areas are selectively looser. PG&E wouldn't let me do that in my area.

paul
 
Re: Storm Damage

Here in my local area of NC, we were just informed by poco that we are not allowed to reconnect under any circumstance and that this must be called in by inspector at their earliest opportunity.
 
Re: Storm Damage

Here in NY one of the POCO's is Con Edison, one of the worst and most restrictive companies out there. For residential we are allowed to reconnect, and they even give you a voucher for the required Richards connectors. We are not allowed to do any work on a POCO owned pole, or in a transformer box.

The only thing that they do not like is is unmetered power. As long as your power is being drawn through a meter they permit it.

They also lock every single meter pan, with a very heavy lock, ringed meter pans are required.

They will come out and unlock it fairly quickly, by calling or submitting an internet request. They are very difficult, but not impossible to cut off, which sometimes must be done to make emergency repairs. You need a Dremel:)
 
Re: Storm Damage

Originally posted by apauling:
...But i worked for another EC that always did the jump-over for new panels with service-rated piercing connectors ( I never used them and can't remember the name)...
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The ones I use are made by Burndy. A POCO lineman once gave me some Fargas, but I started using the Burndys after the guys at the supply house suggested them. They are *much* better than the Fargas.

[ June 17, 2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Storm Damage

I just drove by the house in question tonight, and I noticed that POCO has already replaced my temp clamps with permanent ones.

It would be a real hassle if I had to deal with POCO and/or inspectors every time I had to disconnect or re-connect power to someone's house. I just pulled a meter today, swapped out the Federal Pacific fuse box for a 30-slot panelboard, and plugged the meter back in when I was finished. The "lock" on the meter pan can be clipped with any wire cutter. I assume POCO puts a new one on after the job gets finaled.
 
Re: Storm Damage

Originally posted by jeff43222:
The ones I use are made by Burndy. A POCO lineman once gave me some Fargas, but I started using the Burndys after the guys at the supply house suggested them. They are *much* better than the Fargas.
Click to expand...
What is the Burndy model or catalog number that you are using that works so well?
 
Re: Storm Damage

Originally posted by tx2step:
Originally posted by jeff43222:
The ones I use are made by Burndy. A POCO lineman once gave me some Fargas, but I started using the Burndys after the guys at the supply house suggested them. They are *much* better than the Fargas.
Click to expand...
What is the Burndy model or catalog number that you are using that works so well?
Click to expand...
I've got a few of them in the truck. I'll check tomorrow and get back to you.
 
Re: Storm Damage

I finally remembered to check the Burndy clamps. The one I use for 100A service connects says BIPC4/0-6 on it. The clamp will take 1/0 to #6 wire on one side and 4/0 to 1/0 on the other. They come pre-lubed with what I assume is some kind of anti-ox gel.
 
Re: Storm Damage

This all depends where you are at. I live in a sparse area and know most the local linemen and they are glad that I can assist in hooking up a house that is down wire. Also one time after a tornado came through the power was to be out for two weeks so temporarily hooked up 8 KW generator last one in rental shop, removed the meter and wired directly to wires going to service so I garaunteed no back feed to transformer. The POCO Engineer was irate but the linemen told him it was the safest way for them and go learn about the problems of back feed. So it all depends where you are at and who you know.
 
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