Students and side-jobs

[Poolside]

I had an electrical student as me the other night about doing a service change. More to the point, is that they wanted to know how to do it. Naturally, this student was motivated by the promise of a big wad of cash at the end of the job. I told him basically what was needed to be done, the risks involved, and who has to be notified, etc. I ended with "... but you aren't nearly qualified to do this on your own."

This made me think, what should our position be as instructors to students that have "side-work"? Should we discourage them from trying anything that they have learned or, encourage them and use it as an extracurricular project, so to speak?


Thanks for your input,
Greg

 

[nakulak]

imho I think you should encourage them to do it, but make it clear in no uncertain terms that they need to have a qualified jouneyman with them or they risk <the consequences, injury, death, etc>

 

[Energy-Miser]

I had an electrical student as me the other night about doing a service change. More to the point, is that they wanted to know how to do it. Naturally, this student was motivated by the promise of a big wad of cash at the end of the job. I told him basically what was needed to be done, the risks involved, and who has to be notified, etc. I ended with "... but you aren't nearly qualified to do this on your own."

This made me think, what should our position be as instructors to students that have "side-work"? Should we discourage them from trying anything that they have learned or, encourage them and use it as an extracurricular project, so to speak?


Thanks for your input,
Greg

Who is pulling the permit for the job? Whoever it is, they have a relationship with the apprentice, and may want to stand back and watch and advise him as he is doing the work. If they have such a person mentoring them, I would say more power to him, go for it. e/m.

 

[celtic]

As a "student", is the person "qualified" to do the side-job?

Many areas require the person to lic.,, insured, bonded, etc.
Does a student meet this critera?

"What if" the student does this job....and it fails tragically resulting in injury to himself, others or property?

I would remind the student of 90.1(A) and 90.1(C).
Many times, these basic concepts are not part of the curriculum...and are all to easily forgotten.

 

[480sparky]

Let's not forget being licensed. In many areas, that's a requirement.

And does the student have insurance for this work as well?

 

[emahler]

smack the student up side the head and tell them to get smart....

if he's asking you, he doesn't have anyone qualified to work with him or look over his work.

he's moonlighting, without the knowledge required...2 wrongs definitely do not make a right....

i think this student is on his way to being a blight on this industry...

just my opinion though...

 

[brian john]

I have been involved in several jobs where electrricians or want to be electricians were being sued for side work that went wrong. They had NO INSURANCE and were risking everything they owned now and in the future. Hardly worth the amount of NOW cash they made.

I would only work for the electrrician side but there was little or no support for them being able to do "side work". No license which equates to being NOT QUALIFIED, no business license, no bond, no insurance, no evidence of having paid any taxes for a business enity and the no's go on and on. The lawyer for the victim lined them up.

So I would say NO, NO, NO and NO side work.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

.....................

 

[celtic]

Of mention:

- What if the HO decides NOT to pay - what is the side-jobber's recourse?

 

[cadpoint]

It always troubles me! !

It always troubles me! !

What qualifies beautiful to under take this? I've heard of no other reference other than electrical studies!

These things all ways bother me, maybe its business sense to no nonsense that I'll respect, but no, no-way... It even bothers me when my co-worker's talk about a job, it just not my stlye.

Maybe you should have quizzed him on the spot on any of the posted statements + some! .

 

[Poolside]

As a "student", is the person "qualified" to do the side-job?


Many areas require the person to lic.,, insured, bonded, etc.
Does a student meet this critera?

"What if" the student does this job....and it fails tragically resulting in injury to himself, others or property?

I would remind the student of 90.1(A) and 90.1(C).
Many times, these basic concepts are not part of the curriculum...and are all to easily forgotten.

This is my feeling as well.

This is my same basic theory as well. I have had apprentices with a whopping 6 months of experience come in to work bragging about how much they made doing a side job for somebody's friend. Not that I went out of my way to rain on their parade, but I didn't share their enthusiasm. This craft requires much more than the knowledge of black/white/green wires. The reality is that things can go wrong and people can suffer from mistakes that we make.

As far as the student question, my advice is that the student only undertake the work while being supervised by a "qualified" electrician or contractor who is willing to take the responsibility of the installation.

- Greg

 

[emahler]

.....................

what i miss?

 

[mdshunk]

I don't have any special problems with people who do side work, or even students doing side work. The civil libertarian in me makes me feel that a man shouldn't need permission to work for his living. I hope, however, that he has the proper insurance and doesn't get in over his head, for his own sake. The license itself is somewhat less of a concern, since I see it as more of a tax. The trend has been clear for decades that states with the most rigorous licensing laws for electricians, dentists, and optometrists have the greatest incidence of accidental electrocutions, poor dental hygiene, and blindness.*


*Sidney L. Carroll and Robert J. Gaston. "Occupational Restrictions and the Quality of Service Received: Some Evidence." Southern Economic Journal 47: 959-976, 1981

 

[Energy-Miser]

I don't have any special problems with people who do side work, or even students doing side work. The civil libertarian in me makes me feel that a man shouldn't need permission to work for his living. I hope, however, that he has the proper insurance and doesn't get in over his head, for his own sake. The license itself is somewhat less of a concern, since I see it as more of a tax. The trend has been clear for decades that states with the most rigorous licensing laws for electricians, dentists, and optometrists have the greatest incidence of accidental electrocutions, poor dental hygiene, and blindness.*


*Sidney L. Carroll and Robert J. Gaston. "Occupational Restrictions and the Quality of Service Received: Some Evidence." Southern Economic Journal 47: 959-976, 1981

That prompts me to ask; Which state has the most rigorous licensing law for electrical work?? Does anyone know? e/m.

 

[mdshunk]

That prompts me to ask; Which state has the most rigorous licensing law for electrical work?? Does anyone know? e/m.

Check out the tables in Appendix A, B, and C in this article. Might even read a bit of the article if it interests you. It's easier to read than the Carrol-Gaston document.


Occupational Licensing: Ranking the
States and Exploring Alternatives
By Adam B. Summers

 

[cadpoint]

The trend has been clear for decades that states with the most rigorous licensing laws for electricians, dentists, and optometrists have the greatest incidence of accidental electrocutions, poor dental hygiene, and blindness.*


*Sidney L. Carroll and Robert J. Gaston. "Occupational Restrictions and the Quality of Service Received: Some Evidence." Southern Economic Journal 47: 959-976, 1981

I didn't read that in the one page script that is "avaiable" on the I-net of one page - 959. of stated publication !

It don't fall far from the Tree, the doctors don't go far from where their trained, and there vast areas of the country are under served by this, but this is the common fact and not the studied fact! & My OP!

 

[cadpoint]

I didn't read that in the one page script that is "avaiable" on the I-net of one page - 959. of stated publication !

It don't fall far from the Tree, the doctors don't go far from where their trained, and there vast areas of the country are under served by this, but this is the common fact and not the studied fact! & My OP!

OK, I found what out what your talking about, I'm sorry, I didn't get to the last post.

 

[Poolside]

Check out the tables in Appendix A, B, and C in this article. Might even read a bit of the article if it interests you. It's easier to read than the Carrol-Gaston document.


Occupational Licensing: Ranking the
States and Exploring Alternatives
By Adam B. Summers

Hmmm. California the most regulated? IMO, it would then have to be the least enforcing of the regulating entities. Unless you pull a permit, nobody asks for any qualifications other than that you show up to the job on time, and have a pulse. I guess that fits nicely into the view that it is, in fact, more about collecting revenue than safeguarding the public.

- Greg

 

[Energy-Miser]

Check out the tables in Appendix A, B, and C in this article. Might even read a bit of the article if it interests you. It's easier to read than the Carrol-Gaston document.


Occupational Licensing: Ranking the
States and Exploring Alternatives
By Adam B. Summers

Well Marc, you are a civil libertarian judging by your bed time reading material. But kidding aside, it was very interesting. I must say that I did not read all 58 pages, but rather did a search on Maryland (my home state) after reading the the executive summary. Well for the benefit of fellow Marylanders here it goes:
- We rank within the 36 th upper percentile as far as state regulation of trades go
- Fortune tellers in Maryland require licensing (don't get taken by an unlicensed one!)
- White water rafting guides need to be licensed too in the Free State
I am not against licensing and regulations however, it has its place, although can be overdone. e/m