Students and voltage

[Krusscher]

So I just talked to an inspector cause I was curious about a electrical programming class we have to move here at the college and they have control cabinets with motors mounted on the top that they use for educational purposes. They are setup for 480v and he is telling me that it is not legal for students to work on 480v but he would be ok with them being 208v.

Has anyone ever heard of this before? I don't think the students get in the panels and do any wiring. I would honestly rather it not be 480 but if there isn't a code against it then I wouldn't want them to have to pay to change out all of the drives/480v rated equipment. I do believe he said it was a Washington WAC code but I couldn't find anything that said you had to be licensed to work on a specific voltage.

 

[roger]

I'd bet there is a prohibition for students working in any live panel regardless of voltage. OSHA and NFPA 70E are where you and the inspector need to look.

 

[Krusscher]

I'd bet there is a prohibition for students working in any live panel regardless of voltage. OSHA and NFPA 70E are where you and the inspector need to look.

There would be a disconnect/ cord connected but obviously the concern is if an absent minded student does leave it on or they want to have the doors open to see what the plc/contactors are doing. I don't know of the right answer for making this practical for learning purposes and still making it legal.

 

[zbang]

He says it's not legal, he then needs to tell you where to see the regulation.

 

[Ken_S]

We made control panel training boards up, but kept everything at 24 v

 

[letgomywago]

I actually think there's something in the wac rules that exempts this from UL listing maybe there's more info in them about that.

 

[ericsarratt]

He says it's not legal, he then needs to tell you where to see the regulation.

Yep! Ask him for the Statute, administrative code, code or regulation.

And, I am all about safety equipment. I am still in school for HVAC, but nobody knows about safety equipment in my classes. No insulated gloves. No safety glasses. It is a death waiting to happen. The teachers are uneducated about safety and thus they don't know the information to teach the students. We work with 480 volts at times.

 

[hillbilly1]

208 will kill you just as easy as 480, so don’t know what the difference would be. I’ve seen 208 volt panels with a higher arc flash cal requirement than a 480 volt panel right next to it.

 

[mtnelect]

Life was simpler when I went through my IBEW Local 11 Apprenticeship. We now have bigger challenges ... Trade schools are nonexistent, and if it wasn't for the unions apprenticeship programs we would be doomed.

 

[Krusscher]

Life was simpler when I went through my IBEW Local 11 Apprenticeship. We now have bigger challenges ... Trade schools are nonexistent, and if it wasn't for the unions apprenticeship programs we would be doomed.

my apprenticeship was paid for by my non-union company back in the day I hadn't heard of many apprentice's that did pay for theirs. There was a big contractor that had their own program for their apprentices and didn't charge much for other companies to use their program as well.

 

[kwired]

Life was simpler when I went through my IBEW Local 11 Apprenticeship. We now have bigger challenges ... Trade schools are nonexistent, and if it wasn't for the unions apprenticeship programs we would be doomed.

Trade schools may be non existent in areas where there is heavy union membership. Where there is little to no union membership - they do exist. Might not be a stand alone electrical trade school but rather an electrical training program at a community college or similar. That is what I went to about 35 years ago and still is many in the area that go through that same program in the same school. They do have a much nicer building now then we had back then, it is less than 10 years old. I've taken CEU's for licensing renewal in that new building more recently.

 

[tom baker]

The inspector is likely correct. If this is a training program for electrical trainees, look in WAC 246B, section 920 under the scope of work, you’ll see that some electrical specialty certifications are limited to 240 V in their scope of work.

 

[Strathead]

Trade schools may be non existent in areas where there is heavy union membership. Where there is little to no union membership - they do exist. Might not be a stand alone electrical trade school but rather an electrical training program at a community college or similar. That is what I went to about 35 years ago and still is many in the area that go through that same program in the same school. They do have a much nicer building now then we had back then, it is less than 10 years old. I've taken CEU's for licensing renewal in that new building more recently.

And it isn't where you learn it, it is what you put in to it. I got my first training in the Air Force, as an instrument systems specialist. We learned basic AC and DC theory. But technically my first was Physics in High School because I recognized the tie between the two. But my major schooling in what goes in to buildings, I took the Sally Struthers Correspondence course. I applied myself and learned a lot more than I feel most of my apprenticeship students learn today.

 

[kwired]

And it isn't where you learn it, it is what you put in to it. I got my first training in the Air Force, as an instrument systems specialist. We learned basic AC and DC theory. But technically my first was Physics in High School because I recognized the tie between the two. But my major schooling in what goes in to buildings, I took the Sally Struthers Correspondence course. I applied myself and learned a lot more than I feel most of my apprenticeship students learn today.

I can agree with that.

Some may go thinking they want to do this but then find out it isn't as simple as they maybe thought it would be.

 

[Strathead]

Another huge point for me is read stuff. This forum, EC and M magazine which you can get for free. The literature put out by manufacturers. For example read the literature published by Crouse Hinds on classified (article 501) areas. You will learn a lot! Read about the technology behind PIR, vs. ultrasonic, vs, microphonic occupancy sensors. You will begin to understand how to set them up when you install them. Just because a device has both uttrasonic and infrared, doesn't mean you need to turn both on.