Stupid is as stupid does........

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Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
we all know about working stuff hot, and how it's not for all
practical purposes, permitted any more.

and we all know how that gets violated. i know, not by you....
but the other guys on the forum, and elsewhere.

or maybe just by other guys who are *not* on this forum.....
i'm gonna assume, for the sake of argument, that i was the
ONLY guy on this forum still doing stuff hot.

been doing it over 30 years, excellent hand skills, yada, yada, yada.

well, rest assured, we are pure again.
i. am. not. doing. it. again.

ever.

why was i doing it hot? really? 'cause i was too lazy to go
turn off the switch in an office. no other reason. won't even
pretend there was one.

i was still tasting copper a week later. based on my knowledge
of ohm's law, there really isn't a valid reason why i'm still alive.

went in between the first and second finger of my left hand, exited
the heel of my right palm. straight across the chest, no parallel paths.
solid connection, no burning of the skin.... turned the skin very dark
for a while, as in bruised, but no charring. no arc.

it was 120 volts.... now, we all know that 50 milliamps can trigger
a heart attack... i tripped a 20 amp breaker, all by myself. no arcing
of voltage to ground. usually, the human body cannot flow enough
current to trip a 20 amp breaker on 120 VAC. you just stay on it till
you fry.

the connected load on the circuit, not including me, was about 250
watts, so i pulled the difference. something above 2,000 watts.

it knocked me out, when i came to, i was sitting on top of an 8'
stepladder. the ceiling grid kept me from falling off the ladder.

my first thought was, "the breaker tripped"... climbed down off the
ladder, and sat down on the floor to get my wits about me.

called my wife, who was on her way to work, and asked her to pick
me up, and take me to the hospital. had an ECG done, and blood work,
which is important. after a bad shock, the next 8 hours are iffy.
the tissues when electrocuted, release potassium into the blood
stream, which can trigger a heart attack some hours later.

always knew there was a risk of heart attack following a bad shock.
didn't know why. that's why.

blood work normal, heart normal. felt pretty well beat to crap for
several days afterwards. still feeling out of sorts a week later.

i'm not gonna plead with anyone here not to do anything as
stupid as what i did.

just understand, as you think "that won't happen to me" that i
have had in excess of 30 years experience working things hot,
including a 30 KVDC test rack, that i worked barehanded in
the mid 1970's, for over a year. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

turns out, the arrogance of my ego did not provide enough
protection against electrocution.

tired today, not even gonna bother preparing invoices. and
doing paperwork. it screws with you longer than you think it
ought to.

it's a good day to be alive.


randy
 

jumper

Senior Member
I am glad you are okay.

A glancing brush contact, 6 or 7 years ago, on 277v cured me of any hot work.

I may never be able to retire, yet I want to be around to at least try.

May God bless and always keep you safe forever more.
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
First, I'm hoping that everything is OK with youd future health.

Second, you may save lives with your story. I will forward it to all my guys.

Third, can you give exact details of what you were doing, how you were standing, what you were touching, how you came in contact with the wire etc?

Fourth, I am glad you are still with us.
 

eric9822

Senior Member
Location
Camarillo, CA
Occupation
Electrical and Instrumentation Tech
Glad to hear that you are OK. May I forward to our electricians that would benefit from your story?
 

Howard Burger

Senior Member
thanks

thanks

Glad you made it to tell us about it.. and thanks for the tip regarding post shock danger. Gives us a good incentive to insist that the employee get checked after a jolt, and to pay attention to how he/she feels for awhile afterwards.
 

sd4524

Senior Member
I will stick my hands in almost any panel and will (stupidly) cut overhead wires hot. I absolutely hate being above a drop grid ceiling and working on anything hot. Fixtures are big pieces of sheet metal with sharp edges and there is always something metal that you are touching without realizing.
Glad to hear you are alive!
 

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
Randy, I am also glad you are ok. Over the time I have been posting on this forum I have also changed my own attitude and methods in regards to working hot (i.e. only as allowed for troubleshooting) as I have had my share of "hits" over the past several years. And with my current state of health it would take very little of a shock to cause major damage.

Thanks for sharing your story, and hope you are doing well.
 

Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
Thanks for the post. I am glad you are OK. We should all stop and reflect on our work habits! It is so easy to take for granted the importance of Safety.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
it was 120 volts.... now, we all know that 50 milliamps can trigger
a heart attack... i tripped a 20 amp breaker, all by myself. no arcing
of voltage to ground. usually, the human body cannot flow enough
current to trip a 20 amp breaker on 120 VAC. you just stay on it till
you fry.

the connected load on the circuit, not including me, was about 250
watts, so i pulled the difference. something above 2,000 watts.

it's a good day to be alive.


randy

Randy I'm glad you are still alive, must be some kind of miracle ( and I don't even believe in miracles ).

I think it's great that you are telling this story because everyone and I mean everyone should read it. I saw a guy not long ago that was working 120V live and when I tried to tell him of the danger he just sluffed it off as in 120V won't hurt anyone. It's really hard to get people to understand that it will kill them . Many have gotten a little "tingle " from 120V and they think that's it but there is a real surprise waiting if they ever make a good connection.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
First, I'm hoping that everything is OK with youd future health.

Second, you may save lives with your story. I will forward it to all my guys.

Third, can you give exact details of what you were doing, how you were standing, what you were touching, how you came in contact with the wire etc?

Fourth, I am glad you are still with us.

well, for what it's worth... here's what i know about what happened...

there were 9 can lights with a combination of CFL's and incandescent
lamps on the circuit that were on at the time. it was 7 am before the
occupants of the office were working, and i was getting my work done
around their occupancy, as i hate standing on someone's shoulders to
work.

had a long sleeved sweatshirt on, and was straddling an 8' a frame ladder.
ladder is a little giant XL, with insulating feet on it. before you break
out in a rash over "aluminum ladder", before i put the ladder in service,
i meggered it, to a steel plate it was resting on, at 1,000 volts. it was
above maximum value on a fluke megger.

it's still an infinite resistance. tested it afterwards.

in any event, i was straddling the ladder, half of me up thru the grid,
working on a elite 6" can, making it up. the light i was adding was
made up, and unlamped, so it wouldn't draw any current.

the hot box was made up using wago's, and i stripped and stabbed
the ground and neutral into the wagos, all well and good.

stripped 3/8" of the hot back, gripped it on the insulation about 1/4"
from the end of the insulation with a pair of needlenose pliers, held
wago between thumb and forefinger of the other hand, and brushed
the wire into the wago port, to see if it drew an arc.... it didn't, so
i went to seat the wire into the wago.....

and woke up on top of the ladder, leaning against the t bar. the
lights were off, and the circuit breaker in the panel was tripped.

the wire, the needlenose pliers, and the offending wago show no
arc points anywhere on them. neither does the metal box, or any
metal within the reach of the wires show any arc points.

i had no arc burns on my skin anywhere, except for an almost black
spot the size of a quarter in two places... in between the first and
second finger of my left hand, and the heel of my right hand.

initially, they were almost as black as charcoal, but faded to a bruise
like color within 2 hours, and disappeared entirely after a day. at
first, i thought they were dirt, but they didn't wash off with soap
and water.

the office manager had just gotten into the office a few minutes before,
and was about 40 feet away in the adjoining office, and came into
the room when she said she heard me screaming. i have no recollection
of making any sound.

i reset the circuit breaker, and the lights came on. nothing was shorted.
the wire i was attempting to push into the wago was not connected,
but when subsequently connected, was not shorted. the fixture i was
adding worked correctly.

that's a long and somewhat unsatisfying, from my point of view,
recollection of what happened.

don't know what the current path was for certain, if it was hand to
hand across the heart, or both hands to ground, or a combination of
the two, but i suspect a combination of the two.

i'm still having neck and shoulder spasms, so a fair bit of current must
have gone that way.

what i do know, is that i'm alive, for reasons that are beyond my
understanding.
 

mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
Wow! I'm very happy you are still here as well. I sometimes wonder to myself when doing electrical work, what if I did something stupid and kill myself, would the article in the paper read "Electrician killed" as the headline and in bold underneath, "Member of Mike Holts electrical forum".
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I sometimes wonder to myself when doing electrical work, what if I did something stupid and kill myself, would the article in the paper read "Electrician killed" as the headline and in bold underneath, "Member of Mike Holts electrical forum".
" . . . and knew better."
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Glad your ok, with your permission I will send this post out to my guys also. There is a saying that most of you probably know. "Theres old electricians, and theres bold electricians, but they are no old bold electricians" Our program is apparently working, as I was talking to the president of our lighting division was telling me today that they were doing a photo shoot for our new web site, and they wanted pictures of one of our guys using his PPE in front of an open panel, he balked at working in front of a live panel (even though he was not actually "working" on it) without calling and getting approval first from the safety department.
 

KevinVost

Senior Member
Location
Las Vegas
Randy, glad to hear that your OK. I, like others here, will be sharing your story with some workers we employ (with your permission). Your experience might help save someone someday.

I am happy that you're OK.:grin::grin:

(Let me know if your coming up to Sin City anytime soon, it'd be great to meet up again.....)
 
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