Sub panel for Endless pool

[howardrichman]

I'll be wiring a Endless Pool for a customer. As far as I know, NEC requirements should be the same as any permanent pool regarding outlets and motors, and bonding. There will be 2 hydraulic pumps for a treadmill, and wave maker which are supposed to have whips to install to 2 GFI 30A breakers. I'm not sure if it's permissible to install a 4 ckt sub panel for these breakers for disconnecting means. Will I need a sub panel permit and inspection before acquiring the pool permit? Are the codes similar to a spa or pool. Can I install romex to feed the sub panel or will I need to install pvc ? Will 60 amp sub feed be code for the 2- 30 amp circuits?

any info appreciated
HR...

 

[cpinetree]

Yes, all pool / spa requirements will be the same.
NEC article 680, most any or all sections could pertain to your install.

Permit should only be required to be pulled for the pool itself, the sub panel will automatically become part of that permit.

The sub panel will need to have an insulated ground to feed it - Romex no bueno :happysad:

 

[howardrichman]

Yes, all pool / spa requirements will be the same.
NEC article 680, most any or all sections could pertain to your install.

Permit should only be required to be pulled for the pool itself, the sub panel will automatically become part of that permit.

The sub panel will need to have an insulated ground to feed it - Romex no bueno :happysad:

Yea, I wasn't sure about that insulated ground. I thought that wasn't required for 1 family residence, and romex was allowed? Also Maybe in an older code, a sub panel was not allowed to be installed to accommodate pool wiring, and had to keep it separate.

Thanks for reply;
HR...

 

[howardrichman]

Yea, I wasn't sure about that insulated ground. I thought that wasn't required for 1 family residence, and romex was allowed? Also Maybe in an older code, a sub panel was not allowed to be installed to accommodate pool wiring, and had to keep it separate.

Thanks for reply;
HR...

I think The code states the ground is to be covered. please confirm

 

[kwired]

I think The code states the ground is to be covered. please confirm

680.21(A)(1) says the EGC must be insulated copper.

680.21(A)(4) basically says it can be bare, but must be covered but only applies for single family dwellings, and is only allowed for interior wiring in the building. So you could run NM cable across the house, but if you go outdoors to get to the pool, you must change to a method containing an insulated copper EGC for the outdoor portion of the circuit.

 

[howardrichman]

680.21(A)(1) says the EGC must be insulated copper.

680.21(A)(4) basically says it can be bare, but must be covered but only applies for single family dwellings, and is only allowed for interior wiring in the building. So you could run NM cable across the house, but if you go outdoors to get to the pool, you must change to a method containing an insulated copper EGC for the outdoor portion of the circuit.

Please explain 680.25(A)exception? Is this article stating that the main or sub panel used to supply the pool equipment must be existing to install the wiring for the pool equipment thru the interior of a one family dwelling to use romex cable ? Does this mean I could take a permit to install a sub panel w/ the pool equipment if the sub panel is wired in conduits listed in 680.25A, then I can run nonmetallic sheathed cable to the pool equipment; Or, take a permit out for a general load sub panel prior to the pool permit to use cable throughout the installation to conform to the exception?

HR...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

680.21 Is for the motor not the pool panel. 680.25(A) exception has an errata and has been removed from the 2014 NEC

 

[kwired]

Please explain 680.25(A)exception? Is this article stating that the main or sub panel used to supply the pool equipment must be existing to install the wiring for the pool equipment thru the interior of a one family dwelling to use romex cable ? Does this mean I could take a permit to install a sub panel w/ the pool equipment if the sub panel is wired in conduits listed in 680.25A, then I can run nonmetallic sheathed cable to the pool equipment; Or, take a permit out for a general load sub panel prior to the pool permit to use cable throughout the installation to conform to the exception?

HR...

My apologies, the sections I mentioned before only apply to the branch circuit feeding a motor.

I see no exceptions to 680.25.

What to file for permits? that is up to the local AHJ. The branch circuits to the pool equipment need to be supplied by a feeder that complies with 680.25 and doesn't matter to NEC if it was done under same permit as the feeder or not.