Sub panel in kitchen counter?

[sfav8r]

OK, this is a new one. I was on a call and needed to locate the panel. I asked the H/O if they knew where the panel was and she says "oh yeah, the switch thing...it's in the counter". I assumed she was thinking of something else, but next thing I know, she removes a wooden dummy panel and behind it is the sub panel...right there on the back side of the kitchen counter.

Now technically, there is a 1/2 wall that the cabinets are butting up to and the panel is "sort of" mounted in the wall, but if you slide the stove out, you see the back of the panel.


The current install is really bad, you can actually move the panel back and forth because they mounted it on a single 2x4 that is only toe-nailed in at the bottom and is loose at the top.

My question is, if you were to clean-up the install, properly secure the panel etc. is there any other violation here?

I don't believe that headroom requirements apply here because it's an existing residental structure. The fact that you can slide the stove out and see the back of the panel bothers me, but I don't think it's a violation (sure makes adding new circuits a breeze

Any thoughts?

 

[mdshunk]

Sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie until a more substantial remodel. Mention that it's not exactly the way you'd do it, and leave it at that. Just my opinion.

 

[e57]

My question is, if you were to clean-up the install, properly secure the panel etc. is there any other violation here?

I don't believe that headroom requirements apply here because it's an existing residental structure.

Any thoughts?

This has become quite popular - and a re-hash of bad building practices imported from Marin. Where I have seen a number of these since if you even get a permit, you can get inspected over the phone - some kinda cool - some barely accessible in lower cabinets in the back behind drawers, once under a sink..... Generally the 70's when much of Marin was going through big development were a bad time for the trade it seems.....

Anyway, I too have even suggested hiding panels when battling it out with a customer and a GC over panel placement - When I mention 'work space'... 7 out of 10 times get the "You can reach in there and work on it...." response.... And have to run down the list of "no not in the closet, yes you can hang a picture over it, not in the attic - 3'x30"x6'6"..."

However you need to be smart about it. (If in SF "readily accessible" means no use of tools to gain access) Touch latches are good. But the face of the panel should be right there when you open it - not buried 1/2 mile back. Dedicated equipment space etc. (Is this a gas stove with a line under or above the panel?) And for your safety and the safety of others - be at a height respectable to not be kneeling on or reaching past a grounded surface if needed for testing..... (Although there is no minimum hieght requirement in the code) Also you mention head room, if it is a stone countertop or the like - that is possibly a grounded surface - one it sounds like you'll touch your head to.... Not entrap heat etc. Behind a stove is definitely not a good place.... I would re-support it, and rock behind it.

That said I have hidden some panels in some neat cabinetry. False sides, behind false doors, hidden panels - many years ago, a spice rack was build around one on a job I did. About two years ago a whole false door in the hallway - looked like it went to a closet... Stuffed homeworks, a sub panel and a bunch of transformers in it.

 

[macmikeman]

Today I was working in a kitchen where the owner's two sons had done a real sweet job of "hiding the panel away". They double doubled out the wall where it was previously installed so that it was back inside behind a 2x4 wall and then sheetrocked over real nice. Didn't bother to put the panel cover on either, I found that down at the bottom of the new stud wall cavity.