sub panel without equipment ground?

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royta

Senior Member
A customer has a sub-panel on an the inside of an exterior wall of a barn type building. I need to remove this panel and install a new panel on the other side of the wall (outside of the building). I guess that doesn't really matter to you.

Here's my situation. There is a meter/main combo on the side of the house which feeds a sub-panel located in the house. The main panel also fed a 240V branch circuit going to a disconnect located at the back of the house. Somebody before me removed the interior of the disconnect and used it as a junction box to feed the same sub-panel I am trying to relocate. Here's the problem, there is no equipment ground between the main and sub-panel. There are only two 120V legs and a Neutral between the two panels. For ground at the sub-panel, there is a grounding electrode. I am trying to squeeze under 2002 NEC 250.32(B)(2) and bond the neutral bar to the sub-panel can. It would be easy to pull an equipment ground between the junction box and the sub-panel, however it won't be so easy to get a ground between the junction box and the main panel (both are on exterior walls of the house). I qualify under parts 1 & 2 of the Article, but part 3 seems to catch me. Where...ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common ac service. Since this is a residential installation, there is obviously ground-fault protection located somewhere in the house. However, it is not coming from the main panel, only the sub-panel located in the house. Does this still fall under the "common ac service"? Besides this, the junction box (old disconnect), contains splices of the current carrying conductors feeding the barn sub-panel.

What can I legally get away with?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: sub panel without equipment ground?

Originally posted by royta:
What can I legally get away with?
You have two choices

Walk away from the job or do the job to current code and install a proper feeder.

If the customer does not want to pay for the correct job take option one.

This does not sound like an installation that 250.32(B)(2) will apply.
 

benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Re: sub panel without equipment ground?

royta,

W here GFP of EQUIPMENT has not been installed on the common ac service, this is not talking about gfci recpts. Sometimes the main service will have GFP and by tying the neutral to the can and the can to the GES it will trip the GFP at the main/feeder.thus #3 not allowed.

Also be carefull @ animal type structures,It takes very little leakage to hurt/kill animals

frank
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Re: sub panel without equipment ground?

Benaround is correct, they are talking about GFP on the service, what difference would it make if there were GFI breakers or receptacles in the house?

As long as there are no grounded metallic paths between the house and the barn (such as a water line, telephone wiring etc.) you should meet 250.32(B)(2)requirements. I always prefer to run an EGC but sometimes you are stuck.

-Hal
 
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