sub panel
- Thread starter elecon
- Start date
- Status
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: sub panel
Yes.
Yes.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: sub panel
See Section 250.32 of the NEC. You have options.
See Section 250.32 of the NEC. You have options.
jackthedonk
New member
Re: sub panel
this all sounds good and well but for the fact the garage is detached requiring a separate service entirely it is not allowed to be subbed.
this all sounds good and well but for the fact the garage is detached requiring a separate service entirely it is not allowed to be subbed.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: sub panel
Generally speaking, any panel that is downstream of the first point of disconnect (service main), requires to have the grounded (neutral) conductor and the equipment grounding conductor separated (if an equipment grounding conductor is installed). Because the garage is detached, you will also be required to drive a ground rod or use some type of grounding electrode as per 250.52. Referencing 250.32 will give you further info as to what can and cannot be done about installing an equipment grounding conductor to the detached garage.
Pierre
Generally speaking, any panel that is downstream of the first point of disconnect (service main), requires to have the grounded (neutral) conductor and the equipment grounding conductor separated (if an equipment grounding conductor is installed). Because the garage is detached, you will also be required to drive a ground rod or use some type of grounding electrode as per 250.52. Referencing 250.32 will give you further info as to what can and cannot be done about installing an equipment grounding conductor to the detached garage.
Pierre
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: sub panel
230.40 Exception #3 also gives another option. as long as the total load is within the rateing of the service drop.
If there is no other metellic paths the EGC does not have to be ran as per: 250.32(B)(2) not the best way but is allowed. But the neutral and grounds in the panel in the garage will have to be bonded just like service equipment. and if you run a feeder from a breaker in the house you will still need a main breaker or disconect at the garage 225.31-.33
If home owner want's to use a lot of power in the garage I will set a double lug 320 meter and up size the entrance wires then just jump off this meter to the garage to a main breaker panel, and treat it like a service. (neutral ground bonds,grounding electrods).230.40 Ex.3
230.40 Exception #3 also gives another option. as long as the total load is within the rateing of the service drop.
If there is no other metellic paths the EGC does not have to be ran as per: 250.32(B)(2) not the best way but is allowed. But the neutral and grounds in the panel in the garage will have to be bonded just like service equipment. and if you run a feeder from a breaker in the house you will still need a main breaker or disconect at the garage 225.31-.33
If home owner want's to use a lot of power in the garage I will set a double lug 320 meter and up size the entrance wires then just jump off this meter to the garage to a main breaker panel, and treat it like a service. (neutral ground bonds,grounding electrods).230.40 Ex.3
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: sub panel
this all sounds good and well but for the fact the garage is detached requiring a separate service entirely it is not allowed to be subbed.
Sorry Jack but that is not correct.
-Hal
this all sounds good and well but for the fact the garage is detached requiring a separate service entirely it is not allowed to be subbed.
Sorry Jack but that is not correct.
-Hal
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: sub panel
I wonder if 230.2 is being misapplied?
I wonder if 230.2 is being misapplied?
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
Re: sub panel
Hurk If I understand this correctly the exception where it says service conductors is the key. Because they are service conductors you are then allowed(required) to treat the second disconnect as service disconnect and bond the neutral eh? And drive another set of ground rods or would one suffice per 250.32 (A) exception?
Hurk If I understand this correctly the exception where it says service conductors is the key. Because they are service conductors you are then allowed(required) to treat the second disconnect as service disconnect and bond the neutral eh? And drive another set of ground rods or would one suffice per 250.32 (A) exception?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: sub panel
Stew
Service entrance conductors are before any disconnect or OCPD's these are the wires that would run from the service drop point or the point the laterals terminate in the meter, through the meter to the first point of a disconnect. The exception #3 to 230.40 allows us to split this conductor in a code compliant way and run one set of these to the garage. This will treat the panel in the garage just like it was it's own service and would have to meet the other requirements of 230 and 250. There are a few way to do this and be code compliant. one would be to install a meter can that will accept double barrel lugs, another would to install a trough under the meter (if over head service) Or beside it (if underground) and tap these conductors. But you also have to keep in mind that your load can not exceed the rating of the service or the equipment that is ahead of this point. So sometimes it requires up grading the service meter and everything to the utility connection point if there will be a large load used in the garage. I have seen this done in reverse by installing a 320 can on the garage and feeding the 200 amp house panel off this meter as well as the garage.
Stew
Service entrance conductors are before any disconnect or OCPD's these are the wires that would run from the service drop point or the point the laterals terminate in the meter, through the meter to the first point of a disconnect. The exception #3 to 230.40 allows us to split this conductor in a code compliant way and run one set of these to the garage. This will treat the panel in the garage just like it was it's own service and would have to meet the other requirements of 230 and 250. There are a few way to do this and be code compliant. one would be to install a meter can that will accept double barrel lugs, another would to install a trough under the meter (if over head service) Or beside it (if underground) and tap these conductors. But you also have to keep in mind that your load can not exceed the rating of the service or the equipment that is ahead of this point. So sometimes it requires up grading the service meter and everything to the utility connection point if there will be a large load used in the garage. I have seen this done in reverse by installing a 320 can on the garage and feeding the 200 amp house panel off this meter as well as the garage.
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