Subpanel Addition

[publicgood]

I’m reviewing code sections here in Wisconsin for adding a subpanel in a dwelling unit. The current main panel is a rats nest and needs pruning. A few confirmations I’d appreciate feedback on:

1. Although not written anywhere that I know of, I expect this change is subject to the most current local code. Even simple branch circuit modifications are subject to the newest code.

2. From 210.12, to be code compliant, the new install needs AFCI as identified unless covered by an exception.

3. Although not a large cost in an overall new construction project....For the average homeowner, $25-40 per AFCI breaker plus new subpanel is very expensive. Is there anything electricians are doing to help homeowners combat costs? Typically working with the exceptions to avoid using AFCIs? Using receptacles instead of breakers, even for lighting circuits?

 

[jumper]

1. Yes, usually written in local or state admin code.

2. Yes

3. Not my field. Only installed two afcis in my carreer.

 

[MAC702]

... Only installed two afcis in my career.

I've never installed one, but I sure have replaced a few already!

 

[jumper]

I've never installed one, but I sure have replaced a few already!

How did you replace one without installing a new one?

 

[MAC702]

How did you replace one without installing a new one?

Um, being the troubleshooting electrician instead of the construction electrician...

Oh, I get it. I'm slow. Sorry. Never mind!

 

[jumper]

Oh, I get it. I'm slow. Sorry. Never mind!

 

[publicgood]

Generally, are inspectors enforcing use of AFCIs in existing installations?

 

[dkidd]

How did you replace one without installing a new one?

Install a used one?

 

[kwired]

Generally, are inspectors enforcing use of AFCIs in existing installations?

Running a new circuit in an existing structure is still new work so yes to that situation.

Extensions or modifications are covered in 210.12(B)

BTW for a new circuit the entire circuit must be protected, or spend more time and money figuring out what combinations of things will work together- kind of leaves you with best option of using a combination type AFCI breaker, the AFCI receptacles are an option for extensions or modifications. Never used an AFCI receptacle - don't know any of the pros and cons of them.

 

[jumper]

Install a used one?

Hmmm, Mac finally figured out what I meant.

I will let you mull it over.

 

[kwired]

How did you replace one without installing a new one?

Well there is a possibility of installing a used one

 

[jumper]

Well there is a possibility of installing a used one

Also the possibility of not getting paid for doing so.

 

[packersparky]

Generally, are inspectors enforcing use of AFCIs in existing installations?

Wisconsin deletes the requirements of 210.12(B). Branch circuit modifications and extensions do not need AFCI protection in Wisconsin. See SPS 316.210(4) New branch circuits in the locations specified in 210.12(A) would require AFCI protection.

 

[publicgood]

Wisconsin deletes the requirements of 210.12(B). Branch circuit modifications and extensions do not need AFCI protection in Wisconsin. See SPS 316.210(4) New branch circuits in the locations specified in 210.12(A) would require AFCI protection.

There it is! I did look at SPS before posting, but I overlooked this verbiage. We'll see if they keep it for the 2017 adoption occurring soon. Go pack go! Thanks.

 

[publicgood]

Looks like WI is planning on keeping with the same, no AFCIs for existing. We'll see if it maintains this status leading up to 2017 NEC adoption.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/co...g_information/cr_16_093_rule_text/_495?down=1

 

[packersparky]

Looks like WI is planning on keeping with the same, no AFCIs for existing. We'll see if it maintains this status leading up to 2017 NEC adoption.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/co...g_information/cr_16_093_rule_text/_495?down=1

That is not the latest proposal. The document that is in the legislatures hands is here: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/co...6_093_agency_report_to_legislature_part_6.pdf

Both the assembly and senate have referred it to a committee.