Sump pump gfi protecting water heater power vent

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mikhen

Member
Location
oley, pa
I'm in Pennsylvania, where we have adopted a "statewide" code. (sarcasm intended)
Anyway, per builders' specs, we have been installing a gfi recep for the sump pump, and protecting the power vent on the water heater with that gfi. Now, after a long time of working in this development, we failed inspection because of it.
Is this a recent change or something the inspector just discovered in the code book?
Thanx.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
mikhen said:
I'm in Pennsylvania, where we have adopted a "statewide" code. (sarcasm intended)
Anyway, per builders' specs, we have been installing a gfi recep for the sump pump, and protecting the power vent on the water heater with that gfi. Now, after a long time of working in this development, we failed inspection because of it.
Is this a recent change or something the inspector just discovered in the code book?
Thanx.
Click to expand...

I'd bet that he doesn't want that power vent for a fossil fueled appliance on a GFCI that's powering a sump pump.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
infinity said:
Code reference or would this be in the manufacturer's instructions?
Click to expand...

If I were researching that issue I'd start with the fuel gas code, then mechanical code, etc.

Of course having a model number to view the installation manual would be quicker.

OP: can we get a model # for this appliance?

I did a little digging online and it seems some installation manufacturers want dedicated non-GFCI branch circuit and others are arguing the NEC requires the GFCI in an unfinished basement. But aren't dedicated circuits exempt? Or are they?
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mgookin said:
others are arguing the NEC requires the GFCI in an unfinished basement. But aren't dedicated circuits exempt? Or are they?
Click to expand...

Almost all the exemptions have been removed.

Under the current NEC the sump pump would not be exempt from the GFCI requirements in unfinished basements.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
My feelings - no code violation unless instructions of either appliance call for dedicated circuit, but that may not be too likely.

But absence of hot water is a good indicator that the sump pump probably doesn't have power as well.

If you don't want GFCI protection on either of those appliances then you either need to direct wire them (if they have that option), or place them in an area that doesn't require GFCI protection for receptacles that are in that area.
 
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mikhen

Member
Location
oley, pa
OP Here
The pump instructions say nothing about requiring its own circuit, and neither does the power vent.
If his was the first house we did for this inspector, I wouldn't have an issue. Same inspector, new requirement. This is what I hate most about my job anymore. The inconsistencies by the inspectors. Not just agencies, but the same inspector. I have a call in for him for the code reference but I haven't heard back yet.
 
Little Bill

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
kwired said:
My feelings - no code violation unless instructions of either appliance call for dedicated circuit, but that may not be too likely.

But absence of hot water is a good indicator that the sump pump probably doesn't have power as well.

If you don't want GFCI protection on either of those appliances then you either need to direct wire them (if they have that option), or place them in an area that doesn't require GFCI protection for receptacles that are in that area.
Click to expand...

Yep, I would just pick up that sump pump and put it in another room, probably dryer in there too and it shouldn't run as much!:p
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I think the concern on the table here is the power vent on the fossil fuel burning appliance. CO will kill and it happens.

Can we get a model number on the power vent?
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
mgookin said:
If I were researching that issue I'd start with the fuel gas code, then mechanical code, etc.

Of course having a model number to view the installation manual would be quicker.

OP: can we get a model # for this appliance?

I did a little digging online and it seems some installation manufacturers want dedicated non-GFCI branch circuit and others are arguing the NEC requires the GFCI in an unfinished basement. But aren't dedicated circuits exempt? Or are they?
Click to expand...

IIRC, when I installed a dedicated circuit for my clothes washer and put it on a GFCI breaker, the inspector said that because it was a dedicated circuit I needn't have bothered with the GFCI, but this was back in 2006 in NJ; don't know if it's changed since.
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
gadfly56 said:
IIRC, when I installed a dedicated circuit for my clothes washer and put it on a GFCI breaker, the inspector said that because it was a dedicated circuit I needn't have bothered with the GFCI, but this was back in 2006 in NJ; don't know if it's changed since.
Click to expand...

As Iwire stated most exceptions allowed under 2005 and earlier codes are gone.
 
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