Super Market wiring

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berto21

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Is romex allowed in suspended ceiling of a large supermarket constructed of steel. Ceiling is not a return air plenum.
 
Re: Super Market wiring

334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
(A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and NMS cables shall not be used as follows:
(1) As open runs in dropped or suspended ceilings in other than one- and two-family and multifamily dwellings.
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Re: Super Market wiring

Yes until the 2002 code came out, now unless this market is in MA or another state that changed the rules NM can not be used in suspended ceilings of commercial buildings.

334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
(A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and NMS cables shall not be used as follows:

(1)As open runs in dropped or suspended ceilings in other than one- and two-family and multifamily dwellings.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Is there a definition of "Open Runs" ? ;)

Roger
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Hello Bob, boy! Dave is fast.

Really though, what are some opinions of an open run verses a closed run?

Roger
 
Re: Super Market wiring

It is in mass. The people doing the job run a conduit across ceiling then tiewrap wires to it then whip down to lights
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Roger,
In my opinion, open equals "exposed".
Exposed(as applied to wiring methods). On or attached to the surface or behind panels designed to allow access.
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Don
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Hello Don. I wonder why they didn't use the term "Exposed". This seems to say it is permissible to install NM in conduit (closed run) above a drop ceiling.

Roger
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Roger,
The installation of NM in a raceway is another issue under the 2002. There a number of "code experts" that say the code does not permit NM for that use and I agree.
Don
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Hello Dave, I agree it is. It's just that this has been discussed before and I had never thought (or noticed) about this wording supporting it.

Roger
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Originally posted by berto21:
It is in mass. The people doing the job run a conduit across ceiling then tiewrap wires to it then whip down to lights
Click to expand...
I do not have access to the MA code at this moment, but going from memory and experience wiring Super Markets in MA it sounds code compliant.

Ugly? yes you bet, code violation doubtful.

Would this Super Market use a Red & Green traffic light on it's adds? ;)
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Seems to me if you go to all the trouble to run conduit it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to pull thhn than to use nmc at 34$ a roll!!

[ April 12, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: stew ]
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Stew, better check the prices of #12 thhn sol.

My price today is $53.00 per thousand x 3 would be $159.00. 12/2 NM is 136.00 per thousand using the $34.00 per 250' figure.

Roger
 
Re: Super Market wiring

Thanks Roger, I was going to point out that the labor costs in this area make speed more important than material costs many times.

For the super markets we do most are now going with MC.

Even then it takes 15 to 20 electricians, apprentices 3 to 4 months to get the job done.

If we had to do it 100% in pipe it would change that quite a bit. :eek:
 
Re: Super Market wiring

I'm just guessing, because I can't say for sure without knowing actual floor area, distance to property lines or adjacent buildings, etc., but this is "a large supermarket constructed of steel". This sounds like type II construction, and I am wondering if this building could have been built using type III, IV, or V construction. Berto, have you checked with the AHJ? Is NM allowed in this building at all? (NEC 334.10 (3))
 
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