Suspended ceiling layins

[millers520]

Does the NEC require 2x4 layins to be independently supported by wire and or use the metal clips on the fixture to be attached to the ceiling grid? I think this is more of a local code.

 

[roger]

The NEC doesn't require independent support, it is in fact building codes.

For the NEC requirement see 410.16 through the 05 code cycle and 410.36 in the 08.

Roger

 

[chris1971]

I usually check with the AHJ where I'm doing the work. Seems like each jurisdiction has different requirements.

 

[goldstar]

Usually an inspector will look up above a ceiling grid and determine whether the grid itself is properly secured and can support drop-in light fixtures. If it is not properly supported he could make you install separate support wiring to independently support the fixture. If you look at 410.36(B) it indicates that you can use bolts, screws or rivets to secure the frame of the drop-in to the ceiling grid. However, many of these fixtures come with hurricane clips (for lack of a better term) that can be bent outward and used to secure the frame to the ceiling grid. I would think that these are designed for and are acceptable for use as independent supports as long as the ceiling grid itself is properly supported.

 

[mjf]

In my area

In my area

I was informed some years ago that the lay-ins must ALWAYS be independantly supported in case of a fire. Fire dept can come in, knock down ceiling tiles/grid as necessary without having the lay-ins falling on them. Building code, not NEC Code.

 

[iwire]

If you look at 410.36(B) it indicates that you can use bolts, screws or rivets to secure the frame of the drop-in to the ceiling grid. However, many of these fixtures come with hurricane clips (for lack of a better term) that can be bent outward and used to secure the frame to the ceiling grid. I would think that these are designed for and are acceptable for use as independent supports as long as the ceiling grid itself is properly supported.

What you describe is attachment, not 'independent support'

Independent support is what it sounds like it is. Independent, in other words if the ceiling grid vaporized into thin air the fixture would remain hanging.

As Roger pointed out most building codes are going to require independent support.

 

[billsnuff]

seismic info in link

seismic info in link

http://www.seismicceilings.com/faq.jsp?sec=features&navItem=6&yPos=-358

 

[billsnuff]

seismic map in link

seismic map in link

http://www.disastercenter.com/build/seismic.htm

 

[goldstar]

I was informed some years ago that the lay-ins must ALWAYS be independantly supported in case of a fire. Fire dept can come in, knock down ceiling tiles/grid as necessary without having the lay-ins falling on them. Building code, not NEC Code.

I want to agree with you. I was made aware of the same info but depending on which inspector you come across some will tell you that you can attach these fixtures to the ceiling grid using the methods described in 410.36(B) as long as the grid itself is properly secured. I'm with you and the fire depts in that a safer installation would be to independently secure the fixtures to the building frame work or steel.

 

[goldstar]

What you describe is attachment, not 'independent support'

Independent support is what it sounds like it is. Independent, in other words if the ceiling grid vaporized into thin air the fixture would remain hanging.

As Roger pointed out most building codes are going to require independent support.

Bob, I'm sure you're correct in what you describe and that this is a building code issue but I've passed inspection both ways and have recently seen other new installations where a drop-in was screwed to the grid framework and passed inspection. It's tough not knowing whether you're compliant and safe or if the inspector is not knowledgable about the building code.

 

[ptrip]

I was informed some years ago that the lay-ins must ALWAYS be independantly supported in case of a fire. Fire dept can come in, knock down ceiling tiles/grid as necessary without having the lay-ins falling on them. Building code, not NEC Code.

That's exactly what was described to me and why I always specify independant supports. It just makes sense (and is required in many locales).

 

[roger]

The bottom line is the NEC doesn't require it.

The ceiling must be installed per the ceiling manufacturers information and industry standards and here that is inspected by the building inspector.

Any requirement for independently supporting fixtures from the grid system is outside the NEC.

Roger

 

[iwire]

The bottom line is the NEC doesn't require it.

The ceiling must be installed per the ceiling manufacturers information and industry standards and here that is inspected by the building inspector.

Any requirement for independently supporting fixtures from the grid system is outside the NEC.

Roger

I agree 100%

 

[fondini]

Thank you,we've actually had this disagreement in our shop but no one could come up with a code,now I know why.