switch legs

[fireryan]

When pulling switch legs for 277v lighting does the wire need to be the same color as the phase conductor or can it be any color. I have heard both ways so i looked in the code but couldnt find anything.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The 2008 code requires identification by both phase and system for branch circuit conductors in builings that have more than one voltage system. It would have to be the same color as the phase conductor or permanently posted chart at each panel would have to specify a second color or means of identification for the switch legs.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Don are you saying it cannot be marked by another color that is one of the other phase conductors of that voltage? Thus if the color was black, red, blue are you saying that if my circuit is on the black phase that I cannot use a blue wire and a red wire for the switch legs? Not that I would want to but I thought that would be legit as long as it were the same colors of the sytem I started with.

 

[fireryan]

I was under that impression to dennis but then another journeyman told me that is had to be the same color as the phase. I have so much to learn

 

[nakulak]

Please provide a code reference showing that it has to be the same color as the phase used. I can only find reference that it needs to be identified as the correct voltage system color used.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Please provide a code reference showing that it has to be the same color as the phase used. I can only find reference that it needs to be identified as the correct voltage system color used.

The 2008 code requires that the conductors be identified as to both phase and voltage. There is no exception for switch legs. (Note that this rule, 210.5(C) only applies when you have more than one voltage system in the , building.) If you tell me that A phase on the 480/277Y system is brown, then the switch leg on the A phase of that system would also have to be brown. There are other ways to comply, but with two three phase systems, to do all of the identification by color alone, you would need 12 colors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don are you saying it cannot be marked by another color that is one of the other phase conductors of that voltage? Thus if the color was black, red, blue are you saying that if my circuit is on the black phase that I cannot use a blue wire and a red wire for the switch legs? Not that I would want to but I thought that would be legit as long as it were the same colors of the sytem I started with.

Dennis,
How would that identify the conductor as to phase and system as required in the 2008 code?

 

[480sparky]

Get wire with tracers.:smile:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

210.5(C) Ungrounded Conductors. Where the premises wiring system has branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment.

 

[480sparky]

So, let's say I'm in a building with the traditional 480/277 and 120/208 systems. I want to use the following color schemes:

120/208: Black, Red, & Blue, with white neutral.
480/277: Brown, Orange & Yellow with grey neutral.

If I post that scheme on every panel, I'm set, right?



Now, suppose I post the following:

120/208: Black, Red, & Blue, with white neutral.
Switch legs will be Brown, Orange & Yellow with white neutrals.

480/277: Brown, Orange & Yellow with grey neutral.
Switch legs will be Black, Red, & Blue with grey neutrals.

Would that be legal?

 

[celtic]

I'm at a loss here guys .... my '08 is out in the truck, it's raining and I might melt; the NFPA site has irritated me immeasurably lately...so...

I have some vague and foggy recollection of having to use properly "phased" conductors for switch legs when using raceways.
By "phased", I mean colored permanently...not taped.

Can anyone confirm/deny this memory of mine?

 

[celtic]

So, let's say I'm in a building with the traditional 480/277 and 120/208 systems. I want to use the following color schemes:

120/208: Black, Red, & Blue, with white neutral.
480/277: Brown, Orange & Yellow with grey neutral.

If I post that scheme on every panel, I'm set, right?



Now, suppose I post the following:

120/208: Black, Red, & Blue, with white neutral.
Switch legs will be Brown, Orange & Yellow with white neutrals.

480/277: Brown, Orange & Yellow with grey neutral.
Switch legs will be Black, Red, & Blue with grey neutrals.

Would that be legal?

Negative ...210.5(C) ('05)

 

[480sparky]

Negative ...210.5(C) ('05)

So you're saying I can't identify a black with a white as 120v, and not a black with a grey as 277?

 

[celtic]

So you're saying I can't identify a black with a white as 120v, and not a black with a grey as 277?

No, not at all [200.7(C) addresses that].
What I am saying is:

480/277: Brown, Orange & Yellow with grey neutral.
Switch legs will be Black, Red, & Blue with grey neutrals.

May be a problem for you under 210.5(C)

 

[frizbeedog]

There are other ways to comply, but with two three phase systems, to do all of the identification by color alone, you would need 12 colors.

I was counting colors for the two systems and didn't get twelve.

 

[quogueelectric]

I was counting colors for the two systems and didn't get twelve.

I am only up to 9 myself.

 

[frizbeedog]

I am only up to 9 myself.

One finger left.

Opps...hoofs.....how'd you do that?

:grin:

 

[quogueelectric]

One finger left.

Opps...hoofs.....how'd you do that?

:grin:

By tying a wiffle ball to your tail thats how I do it. :grin::smile:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I was counting colors for the two systems and didn't get twelve.

To use color alone for both the hots and the switch legs you need the 3 phase colors for each of the two systems and then 6 more colors for the associated switch legs.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Now, suppose I post the following:

120/208: Black, Red, & Blue, with white neutral.
Switch legs will be Brown, Orange & Yellow with white neutrals.

480/277: Brown, Orange & Yellow with grey neutral.
Switch legs will be Black, Red, & Blue with grey neutrals.

Would that be legal?

Not legal, you cannot identify the phase and system of the black conductor by looking at that conductor. It could be an A phase hot on the low voltage system or it could be an A phase switch leg on the high voltage system. That does not comply with the rule in 210.5(C) as it requires the conductor itself to be identifed. It is my opinion that paring it with the neutral does not accomplish that.