sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
- Thread starter benderal
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
No need to be nervous, welcome.
The only place I know that the NEC requires switches in more than one location is dwelling unit stairways, you are required to have a switch on every landing with an entry separated by six or more steps.
Even a hallway is only required to have one switch.
No need to be nervous, welcome.
The only place I know that the NEC requires switches in more than one location is dwelling unit stairways, you are required to have a switch on every landing with an entry separated by six or more steps.
Even a hallway is only required to have one switch.
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
Bob, is right, there is no need to be nervous, we are going to jump on you wheather your nervous or not.
Just Kidding. I see you posted earlier and Websparky answered with a code section, if you meant to reply in the same thread all you have to do is click on
at the bottom left of the thread.
Roger
Bob, is right, there is no need to be nervous, we are going to jump on you wheather your nervous or not.
Just Kidding. I see you posted earlier and Websparky answered with a code section, if you meant to reply in the same thread all you have to do is click on
Roger
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
If you wired a house to the code you would have a very unhappy customer. The NEC has no location specified for the switches on outside lights, or the lighting outlet in a room. About the only location specified is for stairs.
If you wired a house to the code you would have a very unhappy customer. The NEC has no location specified for the switches on outside lights, or the lighting outlet in a room. About the only location specified is for stairs.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
Never mind. I figured it out. Sorry for the interruption.
[ October 16, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
I'm probably misreading your answer, but what about 210.70(A)(1) requiring a switched lighting outlet in the bedroom. Or do you mean no 3-way required in a bedroom?
Never mind. I figured it out. Sorry for the interruption.
[ October 16, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
Wayne,
While the code requires that a wall switched lighting outlet be in every habitable room and bathroom, the code does not specify the location of the switch. Just the controlled outlet is required to be in the room, the switch can be anywhere in the world and be in complicane with the code.
Don
Wayne,
While the code requires that a wall switched lighting outlet be in every habitable room and bathroom, the code does not specify the location of the switch. Just the controlled outlet is required to be in the room, the switch can be anywhere in the world and be in complicane with the code.
Don
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
Here's an interesting thread that starts to roll....Are 3-way switches code or just convenience?
Lots of talk about switches.
benderal said:
Here's an interesting thread that starts to roll....Are 3-way switches code or just convenience?
Lots of talk about switches.
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
what is the code section for stairs?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: sw's in rooms with 2 or more doorways
OK David I will play along.
Where do you see a requirement for 3 ways? :?:
dnem said:
OK David I will play along.
Where do you see a requirement for 3 ways? :?:
allenwayne
Senior Member
A switch is required on each landing where there are 6 or more risers but nothing says it has to be a 3 way or 4 way or single pole.I think anyone would wire a 3 way in that case but then again some will say if not on the print it gets a single pole and thats it.
Kind of like a switch for exterior lighting some say it has to be at the door but the nec says it has to be there and that means anywhere.
Kind of like a switch for exterior lighting some say it has to be at the door but the nec says it has to be there and that means anywhere.
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
did a house once that I put all the switches in the attic
lights had to be on dimmer switches with control wires to a dimming panel and a touch screen in various rooms and a hand held remote keypads in bedrooms and baths touch a button and ALL lights in the house would come on touch another and only certain lights would come on could preprogram certain lights at whatever intensity could even call the house enter a password and turn on lights open drapes open and close windows and shutters
installed over 700 miles of wire in that house.
He only had 6 200 amp panels
personally spent 4 weeks installing a fiber-optic light in his dinning room ceiling to look like stars layed out all the constellations the north star drilled all the 1/8 holes and fed the strands of fiber through and secured them in place
point is all switches for the lights were in the attic.
lights had to be on dimmer switches with control wires to a dimming panel and a touch screen in various rooms and a hand held remote keypads in bedrooms and baths touch a button and ALL lights in the house would come on touch another and only certain lights would come on could preprogram certain lights at whatever intensity could even call the house enter a password and turn on lights open drapes open and close windows and shutters
installed over 700 miles of wire in that house.
He only had 6 200 amp panels
personally spent 4 weeks installing a fiber-optic light in his dinning room ceiling to look like stars layed out all the constellations the north star drilled all the 1/8 holes and fed the strands of fiber through and secured them in place
point is all switches for the lights were in the attic.
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Throwing a curve here. I know the 210.70 rules and understand. Let's say I have 2 light fixtures going up the stairs (12 steps). I have a light switch at the bottom of the steps for one light fixture and at the top of the stairs I have another light switch controlling the other fixture. Am I within the code here? I wouldn't ever think about doing it this way but you never know about some people.
Jim
Jim
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
sure
be good exercise turn on light at bottom of stairs run up stairs and turn on light run down stairs and turn off light run up stairs and turn off light
now fumble around in the dark to the other end of the hall to turn on the light in the hall
be good exercise turn on light at bottom of stairs run up stairs and turn on light run down stairs and turn off light run up stairs and turn off light
now fumble around in the dark to the other end of the hall to turn on the light in the hall
allenwayne said:
210.70(A)(2)(c) "Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more."james wuebker said:
If the intent of this sentence was to provide single pole control for each stairway landing rather than for the stair treads themselves, the sentence would have said something like, "Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairway landings, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway, to control each of the lighting outlet(s)."
And the part about counting stair treads wouldn't be included because it wouldn't matter. You would have to turn on the upper landing light with the upper single pole, get a look at the stairs, memorize as much as you can, and then turn the single pole back off and walk [or fall] down the stairs in the dark. When you get to the bottom, you turn on the lower landing light with the bottom single pole [if you're injuries from the fall don't prevent it], get your first look at that house level [and any blood you might have to clean up], and then turn the single pole back off and proceed in the dark.
Everybody has to remember that a single pole can be turned on and left on in an occupied room, but when you're traveling thru a hallway, stairway, or other area, a single pole isn't worth a damn. You can't illuminate a travel path with single poles unless you leave the lights on permanently.
When a inspector representing the AHJ makes an interpretation of the code [90.4], the most important thing for him to do is to try to understand the intent of the wording in dispute. For 210.70(A)(2)(c), the intent is clear.
1) You have to count the number of stair treads to determine how to apply the rule.
2) The blue lettered commentary in the Handbook says this, "Section 210.70 points out that adequate lighting and proper control and location of switching are as essential to the safety of occupants of dwelling units, hotels, motels, and so on, as are proper wiring requirements. Proper illumination ensures safe movement for persons of all ages, thus preventing many accidents." Safe movement and preventing accidents can not be accomplished by forcing all occupants to travel stairs without lighting.
3) Common sense also guides interpretation. Noone should imagine that a code panel member would intend that stairways be travel in the dark and yet specify that landings be lit with single pole controls that prevent illumination while traveling on the stairs.
David
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Remember I agree with the 3 way on the stairs but wanted to get some input on what I wrote. I wanted to create a little rukkus to see what Ideas came out. Remember we can all learn a little from different ideas and apply them different also. There's a lot of gray area in the NEC book. It seems like anymore more on the forum we just quote from the book and leave it there. (not all the time). But again, this is the best forum on the internet.
Jim
Jim
allenwayne
Senior Member
All I was trying to show was that the wording is really vague.To control each of the lighting outlet(s),What does that mean EXACTLY ???Does it mean the lighting outlet(s) controlled by the switch at that location or all of the lighting outle(s) in that area.What ifs,should bes,I`d rather see are not valid argumentsWhat is valid is the wording used.While I would never single pole stairwells the code doesn`t say lighting outlet(s) controlled at each level/landing.All it says is that a switch will be at those locations.Kind of like outside lighting there has to be a switch for the light over a door in a house but the switch can be in the attic and it would be legal.Stupid yes legal and compliant yes.If you can show me where it says the lighting outlet(s) must be controlled at EACH level/location/landing wherever then I would go along with you.[/b]
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