Hi, I'm getting ready to do a job that consist of removing remodeling kitchen, outlet, lighting, all Knob and tube (this is throughout not just kitchen), upgrading a 60A subpanel to 125A subpanel, adding a A/C disco... I'm doing it T&M because I'm not sure how to price it...What I'm looking for is an contract/agreement that would say what work is being done at what price and I'd like to get something about progress payments to get paid weekly until the job is completed and signed off. Is there a form someone has or suggestions on how I would set this up??? Any suggestions on what else should be included on this also???:-? Thanks, JB
T&M agreement
- Thread starter CBL
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celtic said:
I don't beleive so...He's having someone come in and do the demo work on the kitchen. so there would be 3 of the four kitchen walls down to the studs and then I'd do my work and then thay would have the same company come in and finish???The homepwner said he could pull permits but I think this is something I would want to do??Is it better for me or the HO to pull the permits? I'm fairly new to this type of work and any suggestions on how I should go about it is appreciated...Thanks, JB
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Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Let me see if I have this right.
Let's say that I'm the HO.
So, you're going to upgrade the Kitchen, upgrade the service, and add a A/C disco. And you want a written agreement with me, to pay you weekly, T&M, with progress payments, until the job is completed and signed off?
How many weeks do you think this will take? Is a week 40 hours? What hours? Dusk to dawn, or between other jobs. How do we log your hours?
New material? Am I paying for just as much stuff that you use, or the whole box/roll? Do I buy the light fixtures, or do you?
Sounds like a sweet gig if you can get it. Also sounds like the HO might not like the final price if you log to many hours.
Let's say that I'm the HO.
So, you're going to upgrade the Kitchen, upgrade the service, and add a A/C disco. And you want a written agreement with me, to pay you weekly, T&M, with progress payments, until the job is completed and signed off?
How many weeks do you think this will take? Is a week 40 hours? What hours? Dusk to dawn, or between other jobs. How do we log your hours?
New material? Am I paying for just as much stuff that you use, or the whole box/roll? Do I buy the light fixtures, or do you?
Sounds like a sweet gig if you can get it. Also sounds like the HO might not like the final price if you log to many hours.
R2006
Member
- Location
- PENNSYLVANIA
Hi CBL
90% of our buissness is t&m, a contract for t&m would be tough. why not just send a letter or inform him what your hourly rate is and tell him you would like a check weekly. This way if theres a problem your only out one week. And at the end of the week if there's no check pull off till you get one.
90% of our buissness is t&m, a contract for t&m would be tough. why not just send a letter or inform him what your hourly rate is and tell him you would like a check weekly. This way if theres a problem your only out one week. And at the end of the week if there's no check pull off till you get one.
This pretty much sums it up?...Minuteman said:
How many weeks do you think this will take?
No Idea?? because of the knob and tube itself I'm not sure because it has to be repalces down to each switch,receptacle, light fixture etc...
Is a week 40 hours? What hours? Dusk to dawn, or between other jobs.
I would try and do this 3/4 days a weeks in phases and do other jobs that need to be taken care of in between on a as necessary basis, Most all of my other work is a property management company tah keeps me fairly busy but most of it can be scheduled and not a "has to be done now job"...
How do we log your hours?
I would keep track of time and what is completed...
New material? Am I paying for just as much stuff that you use, or the whole box/roll?
I'm buying parts and material and would charge for what I use plus mark-up... which is another reason I want to get $$ weekly
Do I buy the light fixtures, or do you?
I do, if the HO decides to buy them to save the mark up then I'd charge for time to locate and order...
Sounds like a sweet gig if you can get it.
I got it and picked up plans done in autocad and done by the HO (he does sprinkler sysrems and the plans are not complete so I would need to make them code compliant and charge for my time)
Also sounds like the HO might not like the final price if you log to many hour and I wouldn't like it if it took twice as long as a quoted....
Thanks for the reply...JBR2006 said:
This has already been discussed and ok'd by the HO but I don't have anything on paper and thought it might be a good idea but probaly not necessary...I'd like to have something on paper or a standard form that I could use if not for this job for future jobs...
If you do mostly T&M jobs do you (or anybody that does this) have any other suggestions of "do's and don'ts" I should keeps in mind? feel free to PM me
Thanks, JB
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Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
This could be a money maker for you IF you communicate with the HO along the way. If not, and you surprise them at the end...
ceb
Senior Member
- Location
- raeford,nc
I wright up my t&m as X# $ per hour + x# $ per hour for helpers
Material ( I do not show my mark up % )
Labor and material to be billed weekly invoice turned in by Wed. payment due on Fri.
Time starts at arrival at job site time stops after clean up and tools loaded
Customer to supply all lighting fixtures and have them on job site. ( I do not buy fixtures for customers, If they buy cheap fixtures and they fail in two months its on them, if i buy a fixture and it fails in 364 days it's on me )
Job site to be available from 7:00 am - 5:00 PM ,weekends if necessary
on invoice I show # of hours worked and a lump sum of material ( I keep a separate itemized sheet of material for my records that shows my cost + mark up. if customer wants a list of material i can produce it still with out showing % of mark up )
The reason I do not show my mark up is that most people know in the back of their mind when they buy something the price has been marked up but if you tell them HOW MUCH you mark your material up they go crazy. They do not or will not comprehend it cost you money to go buy this material, it cost you time or it is something you bought and paid for for stock and have been riding it around for a month waiting to get your money back from it .
If you don't believe this think of this, my wife work in jewelry their least amount of mark up is 3000%. at best if you pay $2400.00 for a ring it cost them $800.00. Now what would say if some one told you they would work for $ per hr and material + 3000% ?
Material ( I do not show my mark up % )
Labor and material to be billed weekly invoice turned in by Wed. payment due on Fri.
Time starts at arrival at job site time stops after clean up and tools loaded
Customer to supply all lighting fixtures and have them on job site. ( I do not buy fixtures for customers, If they buy cheap fixtures and they fail in two months its on them, if i buy a fixture and it fails in 364 days it's on me
) Job site to be available from 7:00 am - 5:00 PM ,weekends if necessary
on invoice I show # of hours worked and a lump sum of material ( I keep a separate itemized sheet of material for my records that shows my cost + mark up. if customer wants a list of material i can produce it still with out showing % of mark up )
The reason I do not show my mark up is that most people know in the back of their mind when they buy something the price has been marked up but if you tell them HOW MUCH you mark your material up they go crazy. They do not or will not comprehend it cost you money to go buy this material, it cost you time or it is something you bought and paid for for stock and have been riding it around for a month waiting to get your money back from it .
If you don't believe this think of this, my wife work in jewelry their least amount of mark up is 3000%. at best if you pay $2400.00 for a ring it cost them $800.00. Now what would say if some one told you they would work for $ per hr and material + 3000% ?
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
ceb said:
The supermarket reciept does not show anywhere on it how much they paid for the ice cream or how much they mark it up.
bkludecke
Senior Member
- Location
- Big Bear Lake, CA
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Just a caution. In California you must give a "not to exceed" price on the contracted project with a home owner. I hate this law but it is the law here. For that reason it almost makes no sense to do a job T&M because it gives all the benifit to the home owner and all the risk to the contractor. You can skirt this some by carefully writing the scope of work so that when unforeseen issues come up you can write a change order to deal with it.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
celtic said:
If the homeowner pulls the building permit ( legal in this state ) then I write up the contract to show that the homowner is acting as the general contractor. Then you just treat the homewoner as you would any other contractor.
bkludecke said:
Almost the same here in Jersey, if the job is over $500 ypu need a contract, it makes no sense to the job T&M because it gives all the benifits, to the home owner, and you end up with all the risk as the contractor.
IMO T&M for long term commercial work, works sometimes, bit it will never give you more then breake even, with a small profit if your lucky, more like a bad paying job when all is considered, something for a job shopper, but not for a contractor.
ceb
Senior Member
- Location
- raeford,nc
Not to exceed $1,000,000.00 for adding two recpt and one switch:grin:bkludecke said:
ceb said:
Thanks, I guess just a signed letter on company letter head stating this or ?? is there a skeleton contract or somthing I can use as a outline...I never show mark-up either....
ceb said:Customer to supply all lighting fixtures and have them on job site. ( I do not buy fixtures for customers, If they buy cheap fixtures and they fail in two months its on them, if i buy a fixture and it fails in 364 days it's on me
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
First figure your take off. Go round the project, one room at a time and count every device that you will be installing. X number of receps, Y number of switches, Z number of fixtures, etc. Measure off how much wire you need, round up a little. You then should be able to calculate from that an approximate figure for your material.
Next, go back through XYZ and figure how long it will take YOU to install the rough and final material. (Like - 15 min to run NM and install box, 15 min to install device) So, if there are 20 total devices in the kitchen, you may come up with 10 hours or whatever. Bear in mind, some devices may take less - some more, but it should average out.
Adjust accordingly, and you have your NTE price!
Next, go back through XYZ and figure how long it will take YOU to install the rough and final material. (Like - 15 min to run NM and install box, 15 min to install device) So, if there are 20 total devices in the kitchen, you may come up with 10 hours or whatever. Bear in mind, some devices may take less - some more, but it should average out.
Adjust accordingly, and you have your NTE price!
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