T&M billing.....????

[JacksonburgFarmer]

Ok. We do a lot of T&M work. A good majority of the jobs we do are almost impossible to bid, because it is somewhat design build as we go, or the scope of work changes daily, and the customers like T&M. My question for those of you who do this type of work, when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered? Obviously you cant bill for 50,000 feet of #12 thhn if you only ran 1000' of 3/4emt, even if you ordered it for the job...I mean like ordering a box of 50 staps, and using 22, ordering a box of screws, stuff like that. I have yet to have a customer question a invoice, but sometimes wonder if that is a good thing??? I would like some opinions on this subject please....

 

[stickboy1375]

Ok. We do a lot of T&M work. A good majority of the jobs we do are almost impossible to bid, because it is somewhat design build as we go, or the scope of work changes daily, and the customers like T&M. My question for those of you who do this type of work, when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered? Obviously you cant bill for 50,000 feet of #12 thhn if you only ran 1000' of 3/4emt, even if you ordered it for the job...I mean like ordering a box of 50 staps, and using 22, ordering a box of screws, stuff like that. I have yet to have a customer question a invoice, but sometimes wonder if that is a good thing??? I would like some opinions on this subject please....

If I order something, it gets dropped off at the job and billed at the end of the month. And why cant you bill out what you didnt use that month? Your not a bank, and never forget that.

 

[Sparky555]

Materials can be handled a few ways:

Have sufficient markup to cover the leftover materials. It can be helpful if you tell your customer in advance that you charge a specific percentage markup on all materials.

Buy less materials than you need & run to the supplier when you need more, charging for your time.

Charge for all the materials you ordered & leave the leftover materials with the customer.

 

[peter d]

For residential work:

T&M will penalize your for being fast and efficient. The faster and better you get at something, the less you get to charge. So the tendency is to "milk" the job so you can get more time in. Whereas if you gave a flat price and you're fast and efficient you can move on to other jobs, or take the day off.

Of course that has nothing to do with what you asked, but hopefully will be beneficial regardless.

 

[480sparky]

..... I have yet to have a customer question a invoice, .......

Then raise your prices.

 

[stickboy1375]

For residential work:

T&M will penalize your for being fast and efficient. The faster and better you get at something, the less you get to charge. So the tendency is to "milk" the job so you can get more time in. Whereas if you gave a flat price and you're fast and efficient you can move on to other jobs, or take the day off.

Of course that has nothing to do with what you asked, but hopefully will be beneficial regardless.

I'm with peter on this, I should have been a cow. :grin: T&M work sucks by the way.

 

[ohm]

Ok. We do a lot of T&M work. A good majority of the jobs we do are almost impossible to bid, because it is somewhat design build as we go, or the scope of work changes daily, and the customers like T&M. My question for those of you who do this type of work, when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered? Obviously you cant bill for 50,000 feet of #12 thhn if you only ran 1000' of 3/4emt, even if you ordered it for the job...I mean like ordering a box of 50 staps, and using 22, ordering a box of screws, stuff like that. I have yet to have a customer question a invoice, but sometimes wonder if that is a good thing??? I would like some opinions on this subject please....

Almost all of what I do is T&M. I invoice at the end of the job, unless it runs two weeks or more. Often I bill every Monday and get a draw within a week, every week, usually the same day I invoice. If I buy something for the job I bill for it, even if I don't leave it on the job. I don't finance the job.

I invoice misc: 1 lot Staples, screws, straps, tape, glue etc. etc. $30 as often as I need to. Very little specifics. Never questioned.

I invoice my hours from portal to portal, travel included, lunch included (even if the client is buying), story telling included, scotch w/ the client after quitting time etc.

Lots of repeat customers, word-of-mouth, advertising budget <$100/yr.

 

[mdshunk]

If you're itemizing on T&M work, there's your second screw-up.

 

[satcom]

Ok. We do a lot of T&M work. A good majority of the jobs we do are almost impossible to bid, because it is somewhat design build as we go, or the scope of work changes daily, and the customers like T&M. My question for those of you who do this type of work, when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered? Obviously you cant bill for 50,000 feet of #12 thhn if you only ran 1000' of 3/4emt, even if you ordered it for the job...I mean like ordering a box of 50 staps, and using 22, ordering a box of screws, stuff like that. I have yet to have a customer question a invoice, but sometimes wonder if that is a good thing???:confused...

"are almost impossible to bid" Every job can be priced.

"the scope of work changes daily" Bring out the Change Orders.

"the customers like T&M." of course they do, they save, and you loose on T&M work.

" when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered" Items used, with a decent mark-up

"I have yet to have a customer question a invoice" One of these days a customer will not only question the invoive, but they will leave you high and dry for the payment.

Bid jobs and make money, or work T&M and have a pay check, usually a small one at that.

 

[stickboy1375]

"are almost impossible to bid" Every job can be priced.

"the scope of work changes daily" Bring out the Change Orders.

"the customers like T&M." of course they do, they save, and you loose on T&M work.

" when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered" Items used, with a decent mark-up

"I have yet to have a customer question a invoice" One of these days a customer will not only question the invoive, but they will leave you high and dry for the payment.

Bid jobs and make money, or work T&M and have a pay check, usually a small one at that.

Ahh, if only every boss understood the meaning of making money...........

 

[Mule]

Ok. We do a lot of T&M work. A good majority of the jobs we do are almost impossible to bid, because it is somewhat design build as we go, or the scope of work changes daily, and the customers like T&M. My question for those of you who do this type of work, when you bill, do you bill for material used or ordered? Obviously you cant bill for 50,000 feet of #12 thhn if you only ran 1000' of 3/4emt, even if you ordered it for the job...I mean like ordering a box of 50 staps, and using 22, ordering a box of screws, stuff like that. I have yet to have a customer question a invoice, but sometimes wonder if that is a good thing??? I would like some opinions on this subject please....

We have a customer exactly as you described it.....We run into the same things...I just try to "think from the hip' on overages. If I think the customer will be using the overage soon, or, if its cost prohibitive to return it with my labor attached.....I bill them for overage parts. Especially small parts like you described ie: straps, screws, connectors, couplings....but in contrast I just completed a installation for them last friday, and we found a shorter path for a preplanned 135ft run of 2"EMT-2/0THHN ..they were charged for ALL of the wire...since it was pre-cut, then I returned the balance of the steel items since I didnt think they would use it for a while.
I bill them once a week for T&M, and they have a three week turn around on payment, seems to work out fine for both parties.

 

[Teaspoon]

I like to flat rate price most of my jobs. If I furnish materials what ever materials are left over are mine.Some customers I work for want to buy their own materials. if they buy them I Leave what ever is left over. If they furnish materials, labor has to go up. to make up for all the time spent going to get the items that are wrong.I do sometimes work by the hour. do not like to work by the hour.