T8 replacement issues

WA_Sparky

Electrical Engineer
Location
Vancouver, WA, Clark
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I have (3) 2 bulb 1x4 linears installed in my garage. The fixtures have fluorescent 32W T8s. Unfortunately I've let them all burn out before I replaced them. I went to Home Depot and purchased some LED equivalent bulbs. Some bulbs showed that a ballist rewiring was necessary. I picked out the direct replacement bulbs. For what ever reason non of them work on these fixtures. As I'm twisting one of the bulbs in it will very briefly flash some light but none of them seem to stay lit. Any ideas what might be going on?

Bulbs purchased: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-El...848HO-840-LED-10/321037752?searchType=barcode

Bulbs removed:
Philips F32T8/TL84
800 series
32 Watt
 
I have (3) 2 bulb 1x4 linears installed in my garage. The fixtures have fluorescent 32W T8s. Unfortunately I've let them all burn out before I replaced them. I went to Home Depot and purchased some LED equivalent bulbs. Some bulbs showed that a ballist rewiring was necessary. I picked out the direct replacement bulbs. For what ever reason non of them work on these fixtures. As I'm twisting one of the bulbs in it will very briefly flash some light but none of them seem to stay lit. Any ideas what might be going on?

Bulbs purchased: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-El...848HO-840-LED-10/321037752?searchType=barcode

Bulbs removed:
Philips F32T8/TL84
800 series
32 Watt

Many drop-in direct replacement have FCC Class A instant start electronic ballasts in mind. They're commercial/industrial use and technically not legal for use at home. Household ballasts are rated FCC Class B and they're specifically designed to have less RF emissions.

Worth keeping in mind that chance of compatibility issue is quite high with drop-in LEDs in residential "shop lites".
 
There's no such thing as "no ballast LED". They're really integrated ballast, just like corkscrew CFLs and they suffer from same disadvantages.
In the earliest days of USB, the power was 5v 0.5A, then it was increased to 1A.
These days, may mobile devices regularly charge at 20W and beyond, but no modern mobile phones, tablets or PCs import class 1 (120-277v) into the device directly.

Some of you may have heard of USB-C PPS. The idea isn't just to improve total efficiency, but to maximize as much of losses as possible to the external power supply to minimize thermal losses within the handset to as low as possible. Same applies to lighting ballasts. Can downlights that use PL-T lamps 26 and 32W lamps use amalgam lamps to tolerate operation at high temperature, but no way in hell integral ballast can tolerate the heat, so they use remote ballast. You don't see enclosed rated 32W PL-T with integrated ballast, because the ballast can't take the heat.

For high lamp density, high ambient industrial environment, integral ballast T8 lamps are not ideal. Best is constant current remote ballast so the ballast is isolated from the lamp heat and the ballast losses do not contribute to luminaire thermal loading. This will ensure longevity without absurd comprises such as simply allowing flicker by eliminating capacitor. You don't want electrolytic capacitors in the luminaire housing.

Integral ballast T8 L.E.D. lamps intended to replace 0.88 BF 32W T8 lamps operating at 2400 lumen are often rated below 2000 lm each. Integrated ballast would be fine for such replacement intended in conditioned space.

However, LED retrofit to replace specular parabolic shoebox high bay with six or eight 2900 lumen lamps operating at 1.15 BF to yield 3300 lumens is unconditioned, high bay is a different matter. They often operate in unconditioned space and the ballast are often premium efficiency type rated for 90C case temp operation. No LED drop in will achieve the output and provide T8 equivalent lifespan.
 
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There's no such thing as "no ballast LED". They're really integrated ballast, just like corkscrew CFLs and they suffer from same disadvantages.
Not ballasts per se, but built-in AC-to-DC power supplies, typically in the 12 to 24vdc range.

They're more electrically similar to screw-in LED bulbs than they are to screw-in CFL bulbs.

By non-ballast LED tubes, we mean those that accept line voltage, not ballast-output voltage.

The ballast-type LED tubes do still depend on the fluorescent ballast functioning correctly.
 
Not ballasts per se, but built-in AC-to-DC power supplies, typically in the 12 to 24vdc range.

They're more electrically similar to screw-in LED bulbs than they are to screw-in CFL bulbs.

By non-ballast LED tubes, we mean those that accept line voltage, not ballast-output voltage.

The ballast-type LED tubes do still depend on the fluorescent ballast functioning correctly.
LEDs that take 12v or 24v voltage input are self-ballasted, but they're built that way so they can maintain their class 2 safety status as well as field customization. You can't feed LED elements on a voltage source without a current limiting ballast.

12v tape lights use sets of three series chip + resistor in repetition which will allow for fairly fine cutting granularity.

The LED elements in linear tubes, screw in bulbs and fixtures not requiring class 2 on secondary side almost always use a much longer string so they don't need to be ballasted with a resistor for every three LED elements.

The string voltage can be anything from 60v ish to 400v (which is why they say never operate with broken envelope) , as a single long series string, or in series/parallel combination, say two strings of 40 series LED elements operating in parallel and fed from a 50mA ballast hidden inside the Edison base.

By non-ballast LED tubes, we mean those that accept line voltage, not ballast-output voltage.
Yes, you can casually call it that, but you can never forget that it's an integrated ballast lamp, so all the problems and limitations associated with the concealed ballast is very much real. Good majority of LED apparatus failure is due to ballast failure.
 
high ambient industrial environment, integral ballast T8 lamps are not ideal. Best is constant current remote ballast so the ballast is isolated from the lamp heat..
Like florescent ballasts, remote LED-drivers are separated from lamps by a reflector, which still contributes heat to enclosures with the ballast / driver.
Florescent ballasts may also have higher max operating temperatures than the typical 112F for remote LED drivers.
 
Side note: retired but wondering if any fellow sparkies have had trouble when converting 277 foot 4' luminares to type two ballast bypass having flimsy cheap broken lamp holders creating a short. I have converted two luminares in my garage and was thinking of installing a fuse holder with a 1 or 1.5 amp non time delay fuse in case the 120 volts feeding lamp holders ever break. Place that I retired from had one research building that the 20 amp 277 volt bolt on circuit breakers feeding luminares never tripped when a zone mechanic shorted out the circuit while changing a ballast or installing a ballast disconnect plug. The 100 or 225 amp remote breaker that feed lightning panel would trip.
 
What them said. 👍

I won’t install led bulbs that require a ballast anymore. I only install direct wire, and rewire the fixtures and toss that ballasts.

Make sure you put that sticker on the fixture too.
I tried that for a little while- only replacing with direct wire lamps. Ended up with call backs when they couldn't get them to work sometime later and find they ignored the label and put replacement lamps in, or tried swapping lamps with a fixture that was not yet converted. So most the time now I replace bad ballasts and let them continue using lamps that require a ballast whether they use fluorescent or LED is up to them.
 
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