southernboys#2
Member
Hey guys are there any specific codes that I need to read up on tamper flow switches. I havent hooked up to many of these. these will be 120v style. thanks in advance
tamper flow switches
- Thread starter southernboys#2
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paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: tamper flow switches
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a tamper flow switch?
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a tamper flow switch?
ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: tamper flow switches
A tamper switch is a switch that determines if the sprinkler valve has been tampered with. The flow switch detects ...... flow.
What panel will be monitoring and supervising the circuit?
A tamper switch is a switch that determines if the sprinkler valve has been tampered with. The flow switch detects ...... flow.
What panel will be monitoring and supervising the circuit?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: tamper flow switches
I have wired quite a few line volt flow switches that simply control a line voltage bell mounted on the outside of a building.
I can not remember ever wiring a line voltage tamper switch.
Southern what is this tamper switch controlling or causing to happen?
[ February 18, 2006, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
I have wired quite a few line volt flow switches that simply control a line voltage bell mounted on the outside of a building.
I can not remember ever wiring a line voltage tamper switch.
Southern what is this tamper switch controlling or causing to happen?
[ February 18, 2006, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: tamper flow switches
On the sixplexes I wire, the fire alarms are low voltage. On the flow switch (which isn't a tamper BTW) when water flows it closes two independent sets of contacts. One set is wired N.O. for the low-voltage side. One set is wired N.O. for the 120V horn/strobe mounted above the firemen's water hookup, to alert them of it's location (and the public about the alarm).
One thing I've never thought much about, is that the LV and the 120V are contained in the same enclosure with no barrier in between them.
On the sixplexes I wire, the fire alarms are low voltage. On the flow switch (which isn't a tamper BTW) when water flows it closes two independent sets of contacts. One set is wired N.O. for the low-voltage side. One set is wired N.O. for the 120V horn/strobe mounted above the firemen's water hookup, to alert them of it's location (and the public about the alarm).
One thing I've never thought much about, is that the LV and the 120V are contained in the same enclosure with no barrier in between them.
rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: tamper flow switches
The systems I've wired have both, tamper switches & flow switches. The tamper switches are installed on the sprinkler system valves & will send a trouble message to the fire alarm control panel (FACP), if someone tampers with the valve i.e. shuts it off. The flow switches are installed in the sprinkler riser & are wired like a normal switch. They are usually rated for 120v, but you can run low volt thru as well. In the event of a fire when a sprinkler goes off, the water will close the switch & send an alarm to the FACP.
The systems I've wired have both, tamper switches & flow switches. The tamper switches are installed on the sprinkler system valves & will send a trouble message to the fire alarm control panel (FACP), if someone tampers with the valve i.e. shuts it off. The flow switches are installed in the sprinkler riser & are wired like a normal switch. They are usually rated for 120v, but you can run low volt thru as well. In the event of a fire when a sprinkler goes off, the water will close the switch & send an alarm to the FACP.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: tamper flow switches
To elaborate, the tampers have cords running to the valve and back, and are arranged so that if the valve is closed it yanks the cord out of the switch, setting it off. If the cord is cut, the resistance is suddenly infinute in the circuit of the cord, setting it off.
The flow switch is protected against tampering by tamper-resistant screws. Which are generally removed by the corresponding allen wrench sitting in the toolbox screwed to the wall beside the tamper switches in the same room.
On the addressable systems we (help) install, there is a resistor placed between the Common & N.O. contact of the LV side of the flow switch, so that if the flow is somehow removed from the system or otherwise tampered with, it sets off the alarm.
To elaborate, the tampers have cords running to the valve and back, and are arranged so that if the valve is closed it yanks the cord out of the switch, setting it off. If the cord is cut, the resistance is suddenly infinute in the circuit of the cord, setting it off.
The flow switch is protected against tampering by tamper-resistant screws. Which are generally removed by the corresponding allen wrench sitting in the toolbox screwed to the wall beside the tamper switches in the same room.
On the addressable systems we (help) install, there is a resistor placed between the Common & N.O. contact of the LV side of the flow switch, so that if the flow is somehow removed from the system or otherwise tampered with, it sets off the alarm.
southernboys#2
Member
Re: tamper flow switches
Basicly how i understand this to work is if water is flowing throug the sprinkler system the no contacts will close and send a signal to a bell. We have these wired on with a lighting ckt. What im looking for is the article that might cover these devices. mainly concerned about spacing and the such. I have done many lv firealarm systems as a helper in the past. Got to love the troubles. Just never did one with 120v. The bells are compatible with lv or 120. Thanks again
Basicly how i understand this to work is if water is flowing throug the sprinkler system the no contacts will close and send a signal to a bell. We have these wired on with a lighting ckt. What im looking for is the article that might cover these devices. mainly concerned about spacing and the such. I have done many lv firealarm systems as a helper in the past. Got to love the troubles. Just never did one with 120v. The bells are compatible with lv or 120. Thanks again
Re: tamper flow switches
If I remember correctly the tampers are wired NC. The detent in the valve shaft keeps them closed til the shaft is rotated pressing the ball opening the contacts. The reason they are NC are to provide a self check to the control. If the wire gets cut it will indicate trouble.
Paul
If I remember correctly the tampers are wired NC. The detent in the valve shaft keeps them closed til the shaft is rotated pressing the ball opening the contacts. The reason they are NC are to provide a self check to the control. If the wire gets cut it will indicate trouble.
Paul
bdarnell
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Occupation
- Retired Engineer
Re: tamper flow switches
NFPA 72 5.10 and NEC Art. 760
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
Re: tamper flow switches
I think the first answer needed is whether the sprinkler system is designed to nfpa 13 or 13R. The biggest impact is that a system designed to nfpa 13 requires a fire alarm signalling system, and one designed to 13R simply needs audible and visual notification. At least that is how it is in MA. If a fire alarm signalling system is required, it must be designed in accordance with NFPA 72. Notification for a system designed in accordance with 13R can be achieved in a number of ways.
I think the first answer needed is whether the sprinkler system is designed to nfpa 13 or 13R. The biggest impact is that a system designed to nfpa 13 requires a fire alarm signalling system, and one designed to 13R simply needs audible and visual notification. At least that is how it is in MA. If a fire alarm signalling system is required, it must be designed in accordance with NFPA 72. Notification for a system designed in accordance with 13R can be achieved in a number of ways.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: tamper flow switches
We've described two different devices that are used for sprinkler alarm and monitoring systems. Your first question was regarding "tamper flow switches". Is it a tamper switch you're asking about or a flow switch ? It has to be one or the other but it can't be both.
A tamper switch is designed to be installed on a sprinkler OS & Y gate valve so that any attempt to close the valve without initiating a trouble or supervisory alarm condition is impossible. A sprinkler flow switch is designed to sound and/or send an alarm signal if water is flowing inside the sprinkler line (i.e a sprinkler head is activated). A tamper switch will prompt an investigation whereas a flow switch will send the fire trucks. In 30 + years doing fire alarm work I have never wired any of these devices with line voltage.
If you're not sure about what you are doing, make sure you hire an expert or get well advised before making any connections. The liability in this can be greater than what the job is worth.
We've described two different devices that are used for sprinkler alarm and monitoring systems. Your first question was regarding "tamper flow switches". Is it a tamper switch you're asking about or a flow switch ? It has to be one or the other but it can't be both.
A tamper switch is designed to be installed on a sprinkler OS & Y gate valve so that any attempt to close the valve without initiating a trouble or supervisory alarm condition is impossible. A sprinkler flow switch is designed to sound and/or send an alarm signal if water is flowing inside the sprinkler line (i.e a sprinkler head is activated). A tamper switch will prompt an investigation whereas a flow switch will send the fire trucks. In 30 + years doing fire alarm work I have never wired any of these devices with line voltage.
If you're not sure about what you are doing, make sure you hire an expert or get well advised before making any connections. The liability in this can be greater than what the job is worth.
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
Re: tamper flow switches
I think that the very limited application of wiring one of these switches 120V would be for simple occupant notification as required by NFPA 13R, which is a fairly new standard. Most applications will involve a fire alarm control panel, and therefore will not be wired line voltage.
I think that the very limited application of wiring one of these switches 120V would be for simple occupant notification as required by NFPA 13R, which is a fairly new standard. Most applications will involve a fire alarm control panel, and therefore will not be wired line voltage.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: tamper flow switches
I'm not sure of the exact wording but I believe that NFPA indicates that as long as there is water flowing inside a sprinkler pipe "a bell" has to ring. Most fire alarm panels that I've used in the past have a provision where a sprinkler zone could not be silenced and thereby accomplishing the same thing.
If a flow switch is to be used specifically for local notification as per NFPA 13R then the only question I have is how much delay time should the Agastat timer be set for?
I'm not sure of the exact wording but I believe that NFPA indicates that as long as there is water flowing inside a sprinkler pipe "a bell" has to ring. Most fire alarm panels that I've used in the past have a provision where a sprinkler zone could not be silenced and thereby accomplishing the same thing.
If a flow switch is to be used specifically for local notification as per NFPA 13R then the only question I have is how much delay time should the Agastat timer be set for?
bdarnell
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Occupation
- Retired Engineer
Re: tamper flow switches
What timer are you referring to ? I've never put a timing relay on a flow switch.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: tamper flow switches
If I remember the adjustments range from 0 to 60 seconds delay time.
As I do not supply, or install the flow switch nor do I design the sprinkler system I leave the time delay settings alone and simply connect my FA to the sprinkler contractors switch.
There is usually a built-in air operated time delay inside the flow switch itself.
If I remember the adjustments range from 0 to 60 seconds delay time.
As I do not supply, or install the flow switch nor do I design the sprinkler system I leave the time delay settings alone and simply connect my FA to the sprinkler contractors switch.
- Location
- Massachusetts
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: tamper flow switches
If a "vane type" waterflow switch is being used, as Bob (Iwire) pointed out (good link by the way), there is a pneumatic Agastat timer built into the switch. This is required with this type switch to retard the unwanted activation of that switch due to water surges inside the sprinkler riser. This can occur as a result of air pockets shifting inside the pipe or changes in city water pressure depending on how close a building is to a pumping station.
Another type of switch is a "pressure actuated" switch. Ideally, this is installed at the "neutral port" of a sprinkler system and customarily used with "dry" sprinkler systems where vane type switches are not practical. The neutral port is located mid-way between the house side pressurized air chamber and the city side water chamber. The neutral port has no pressure (water or air) present at any time until water actually flows. When a sprinkler head is activated the signal is sent instantly with no time delay.
[ February 21, 2006, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
If a "vane type" waterflow switch is being used, as Bob (Iwire) pointed out (good link by the way), there is a pneumatic Agastat timer built into the switch. This is required with this type switch to retard the unwanted activation of that switch due to water surges inside the sprinkler riser. This can occur as a result of air pockets shifting inside the pipe or changes in city water pressure depending on how close a building is to a pumping station.
Another type of switch is a "pressure actuated" switch. Ideally, this is installed at the "neutral port" of a sprinkler system and customarily used with "dry" sprinkler systems where vane type switches are not practical. The neutral port is located mid-way between the house side pressurized air chamber and the city side water chamber. The neutral port has no pressure (water or air) present at any time until water actually flows. When a sprinkler head is activated the signal is sent instantly with no time delay.
[ February 21, 2006, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
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