Tampering with POCO equipment

[chris kennedy]

Today I had a request to open and pull the fuses in a POCO owned 13k/480 pad mount tranny. No emergency, strickly porfit motivated.

I would like to bring this guy up to speed on the possible fines but Google gives me garbage. Where can I find this info?

Thanks
Chris

 

[480sparky]

Did you try your POCOs website?

 

[bphgravity]

If this is FPL, see Part H and I of Section III:10 of 11 in the March 2007 Electrical Service Standards.

 

[djohns6]

Did you have the proper PPE and tools for such a job ? The OSHA fines alone could be huge .

 

[chris kennedy]

Did you try your POCOs website?

Your a wise man Ken. You go there. Mabey I have just lost my patience.

http://www.fpl.com/

 

[zdog]

Today I had a request to open and pull the fuses in a POCO owned 13k/480 pad mount tranny. No emergency, strickly porfit motivated.

I would like to bring this guy up to speed on the possible fines but Google gives me garbage. Where can I find this info?

Thanks
Chris

just wondering some things here.1 dont they lock those there?if they do how did you get a key?
around here you dont mess with the pocos stuff.there is a $100.dollar find for even cutting a meter seal and a $10,000 fine for going in one of their transformers.thats just the poco dont know about OSHA

 

[brian john]

POCO vary from area to area and HV work is somewhat different....BUT

Waiting for the POCO here is not possible, you'll not live that long. 4 utilities all the same.

Emergency to check Thermal issue, We'll send some one out, 4-hours later I cut the seals. Utility never showed up!

Emergency call a bushing on pole mounted transformer arcing 3 days later pole caught fire. Called again and was told yeah they knew about it.


Call to utility for a friend doing an addition, his service drop on roof of the new addition I wanted to meet with POCO, to discuss options. 4 calls in 2 weeks no call back.

Need available fault current for a service 3 weeks before I received an answer this is after numerous calls, and being paseed off to another person.

Had an emergency, electric room in an elementary school flooded above the service, need an outage at the pole. They did not show up till the next day. Rebuilt the service and schedule for reconnection, THEY FORGOT, rescheduled, guy was late (he was at dinner).


I could go on and on......................................

It did not use to be like like this but with the advent of remote call centers and the utilities letting go GOOD customer service reps, well the end product has fallen apart.

 

[zdog]

i agree every area is different.brian i am glad at least here you do get quick responce.if you need a meter seal cut or a trans opened you usually can get it done in a couple of hours.emergencys get top responce times.they just dont like you doing it yourself:smile:

 

[brian john]

There really is no reason for this approach, from the utility stand point.
From a HV stand point I approach this differently as most electricians have no business approaching HV equipment as there is a lack of training and understanding of the equipment and dangers involved.


In our area the customer owns the CT cabinet, repairs are the building owners responsibility on the load side of the CT's in some area, in others they own everything to the secondary of the transformer (CTs still in the main gear).

If a simple seal or lock is all that is keeping you from cheating the POCO it is no better than relying on a wedding band to stop a spouse from cheating. Generally we know what we are doing if stealing electricity is what we want to do we could do it seal or no seal.

 

[iwire]

Brian In my area and I bet yours as well, that is an actual crime and you could be prosecuted. For that reason we can not encourage it here at Mike's forum.

 

[chris kennedy]

that is an actual crime and you could be prosecuted.

This is what I was looking for. I've seen POCO adds that it's a crime but can't find the actual penalities.

I Googled this:

see Part H and I of Section III:10 of 11 in the March 2007 Electrical Service Standards.

No luck.


And I did not go into any POCO equipement. It was just an odd request.

 

[brantmacga]

i ran into an electrician at the supply house a couple of days ago w/ an interesting story. he was working in a notoriously drug-infested poverty-stricken neighborhood (absolute worst place in the city) building new services on fha homes. One he had just completed was on a 6-plex i believe and someone came that night and cut the seals, then stole a meter and the cover. GA power cut electricity to the whole building leaving everyone in the dark and refused to reconnect until the cover was replaced, which the electrician could not find because poco supplied meter base, but refused to supply extra cover. it sounds like an odd thing for them to do, and i wonder if poco is using it as an excuse to leave people in the dark until someone 'fesses up and turns in the thief or they decide to return the meter and cover. i've heard stories from plumbers working in this neighborhood who said they've had entire slabs stripped of all the copper pipes the very day the put them in. one in particular said he hired an employee from this neighborhood while working there. they were doing rough-ins and the next day, they found someone had stole the pipe and cutoff the copper flush with the slab. they made the new employee bust up the slab around the pipes to reattach pipe. the next day they got hit again, but the pipes were cut off two inches above the concrete.

 

[mdshunk]

I've been down this road quite a few times, and once actually had the police involved. I'm sure the laws and rules vary, but in my neck of the woods, the only crime is stealing power. "Tampering with metering equipment" or anything else that belongs to the PoCo, regardless of what they tell you, is not an actual crime in my area unless you modified the meter to read improperly. It's a property rights issue, when it comes right down to it, and the PoCo cannot deny you access to your property or deny you the ability to save your property from peril. For that reason, if I feel compelled to, I will pull a meter or yank elbows. By the way, there is a safe way to accomplish any electrical task. Just because a guy isn't educated as to the safe ways doesn't make a good reason to bury your head in the sand and not talk about the issue.

 

[iwire]

"Tampering with metering equipment" or anything else that belongs to the PoCo, regardless of what they tell you, is not an actual crime in my area unless you modified the meter to read improperly.

It is not the same all over.

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE XXII. CORPORATIONS


CHAPTER 164. MANUFACTURE AND SALE OF GAS AND ELECTRICITY


INSPECTION OF GAS AND METERS


Chapter 164: Section 127A. Destruction of or tampering with, electric or gas lines, meters, etc.; theft of electricity or gas


Section 127A. Whoever unlawfully and intentionally injures or destroys, or suffers to be injured or destroyed, any meter, pipe, conduit, wire, line, pole, lamp or other apparatus belonging to a corporation, including municipal corporations which own municipal lighting plants engaged in the manufacture or sale of electricity or gas or to any person, or unlawfully and intentionally prevents an electric or gas meter from duly registering the quantity of electricity or gas supplied, or in any way interferes with its proper action or just registration, or, without the consent of such corporation or person, unlawfully and intentionally diverts or suffers to be diverted any electric current from any wire or gas from any pipe of such corporation or person, or otherwise unlawfully and intentionally uses or causes to be used, without the consent of such corporation or person, any electricity or gas manufactured or distributed by such corporation, or charged to such person shall be liable to such corporation or person for triple the amount of damages sustained thereby or one thousand dollars whichever is greater. Damages shall include the value of the electricity or gas used and the cost of equipment repair and replacement. Any damages assessed under the provisions of this section in excess of the actual damages sustained by the corporation or person manufacturing, distributing or selling such electricity or gas shall be paid to the commonwealth; provided, however, that if a municipal lighting plant brings an action pursuant to this section such damages in excess of the actual damages shall be paid to such municipal lighting plant.

I am fairly certain you could even be charged under the Patriot act if a prosecutor had a mind to.

 

[iwire]

Chris was it FPL?

Here is the section Brian mentioned and it is as Marc described, only punishable by law if it is an attempt to defraud.

H. Unauthorized Connections & Disconnections.


All connections of the Customer's wiring to that of FPL, all disconnects of service entrance conductors, all meter removals and installations and all breaking of FPL meter equipment seals shall be made only by FPL, except as allowed in Section III.I of these standards. Any other connection or disconnection of FPL's service by the Customer or his agent is prohibited. If done with the intent to injure or defraud, it is punishable by law. Violators will be prosecuted.

 

[roger]

[SIZE=-1]Chris, see [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Fl statute 812.14 below, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]look at (2)(a) and (6) for points of interest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes....HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0812->Section 14#0812.14


[SIZE=-1]Roger
[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

 

[brian john]

I am fairly certain you could even be charged under the Patriot act if a prosecutor had a mind to

Unfortunately this law (well very good in some aspects) can and has been used to "get" people in a manner it is not intended to in my opinion.

 

[iwire]

Unfortunately this law (well very good in some aspects) can and has been used to "get" people in a manner it is not intended to in my opinion.

I agree, I was not really saying it was a good thing only a remote possibility.

 

[mdshunk]

The laws I work under more closely mirror the quoted Florida language. The utility might be downright unhappy with you for pulling an elbow or pulling a meter, and they might even call the police (I had it happen). In the end, I'm just doing what I have to do to provide a service to my customer in the safest and most expeditious way I know how to. If they want the dollar the meter seal or transformer bolt lock costs, I'd be glad to give it to them. Sympathetic linemen keep me pretty well stocked with replacements, however.

 

[peter d]

For that reason, if I feel compelled to, I will pull a meter or yank elbows. By the way, there is a safe way to accomplish any electrical task.

I don't think any one in my area would even considering pulling an elbow with the extreme danger involved with doing that. The poco's would be none too happy knowing that the HV side of transformer was opened by any one other than a lineman.

Meters do get pulled all the time however.