Tandem breakers on new install.

[nizak]

Anyone here feel that installing tandem breakers in a new construction load center makes the work look unprofessional?

I’ve got a 40/80 load center that filled up very quickly.

After I installed it a 2 pole generator interlock, 2 pole irrigation pump, and a 2 pole cook top were added to the job.

Instantly 6 openings disappeared.

I want to leave some open spaces for any future work and am now finding adding 3 tandems.

No reasonable way to add a sub panel due to location and it being a flush mount install.

I’ve never used a tandem that I can recall in many years of doing new builds, just bothers me seeing them in there.

 

[LarryFine]

I have no problem with it. Tandems are merely two 1-pole breakers in one case.

I do prefer to start with the lowest-rated circuits first; i.e., 15a circuits, then 20s.

 

[nizak]

I have no problem with it. Tandems are merely two 1-pole breakers in one case.

I do prefer to start with the lowest-rated circuits first; i.e., 15a circuits, then 20s.

Agreed.
I thought about combining some light loads together and pig tailing to a single breaker.

Then I thought what if it gets overloaded and I’ve got a call back.

Job is 180 miles away.

I guess the $18 tandems are the best way to go.

 

[tthh]

In my humble opinion, with the need for GFCI and AFCI on so many things, tandem breakers are probably not a good plan. I always viewed them as expanison down the road just in case rather than the original plan.

 

[LarryFine]

Tandem breakers (and panels) wouldn't still be available if they were historically problematic.

As far as appearance (and cost!) goes, ask the customer if they would rather see two panels.

 

[LarryFine]

In my humble opinion, with the need for GFCI and AFCI on so many things, tandem breakers are probably not a good plan. I always viewed them as expanison down the road just in case rather than the original plan.

As the OP mentioned, loads got added after planning. That has happened to me many times.

Generally speaking, I agree with you.

 

[James L]

I use tandems on new installs wherever I can.
The price difference per handle is minimal:
$18 for tandem vs. $8 X2 for standard

Speaking of filling up quick, I like to use a 30/60

 

[infinity]

If you need more than 40 breakers why not use tandems within the listing of the panel? I've used them in my own home.

 

[James L]

If you need more than 40 breakers why not use tandems within the listing of the panel? I've used them in my own home.
View attachment 2574157

With almost everything in the house needing afci protection, there's not a whole lot to tandem.

But bathrooms, garage, basement, outside circuits are good candidates. I can usually use a half dozen

 

[infinity]

With almost everything in the house needing afci protection, there's not a whole lot to tandem.

But bathrooms, garage, basement, outside circuits are good candidates. I can usually use a half dozen

That's true unless you're doing a service change or upgrade. These new 30/60, 40/80, etc. panels are pretty useless with AFCI's.

 

[ramsy]

Tandem breakers (and panels) wouldn't still be available if they were historically problematic.

Panel flippers may have cause to avoid tandems, if casualties of holiday cooking & typical remodels, which both typically increase load without capacity.

Like xFCI, tandems trip before other thermal magnetic devices, when sandwiched between hot breakers.

With less surface area to dissipate heat, tandems & quads heat up faster, and take longer to cool down enough to reset, with 1-pole HVAC loads, and kitchen appliances on SABC's.

 

[LarryFine]

I can't help but wonder why you are experiencing so many hot breakers.

 

[ramsy]

I can't help but wonder why you are experiencing so many hot breakers.

Power failure is a common service for electricians in my area.

When unqualified person's ad appliances, avoiding inspection invites overload hazards, much more without load calcs, and without ampacity adjustments from rooftops, or bundling wires together.

Overheated wire may exceed max ratings, which typically burns up devices in boxes, but also damages the cables behind walls, which becomes the fuse that burns down the building.

IMHO, the insurance industry is well aware they can deny claims out of hand, and keep all premiums paid, since the insured occupants have a common enemy with government, permits, and inspectors.

 

[letgomywago]

Remember Siemens makes a tandem AFCI. Idk how long till others make that available but it's out there now.

 

[Crash117]

Remember Siemens makes a tandem AFCI. Idk how long till others make that available but it's out there now.

Right! And these tandem AFCI from Siemens don’t require neutral on the breaker. With the plug on neutral type, there’s only your hot circuit wire on the breaker. Makes for much less wire in the panel.

 

[Little Bill]

If you need more than 40 breakers why not use tandems within the listing of the panel? I've used them in my own home.
View attachment 2574157

You're industrial experience, and lack of residential, is showing with that sideways receptacle from the box!

 

[farmantenna]

I had to use tandems for a design build job. should be called design and surprise as we go .Everyday there's a surprise.

 

[infinity]

You're industrial experience, and lack of residential, is showing with that sideways receptacle from the box!

If you look at the plug you'll notice that the sideways orientation was completely intentional. Besides that it just looks better.

 

[James L]

That's true unless you're doing a service change or upgrade. These new 30/60, 40/80, etc. panels are pretty useless with AFCI's.

I've usually got 4 circuits in a basement (furnace, sump, lights, service recep), 2 bathroom receptacle circuits, 1 or 2 garage circuits and at least an ac service recep, so a 30/60 panel is gonna be close to 40 after those tandems

 

[electrofelon]

I have mentioned this before, but I'm all about the sub panel for most houses now. Nothing more tedious and annoying then making up a 40 space full/mostly full panel with mostly AFCI's. Kill self