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Tandem breakers on new install.

Merry Christmas
N

nizak

Senior Member
Anyone here feel that installing tandem breakers in a new construction load center makes the work look unprofessional?

I’ve got a 40/80 load center that filled up very quickly.

After I installed it a 2 pole generator interlock, 2 pole irrigation pump, and a 2 pole cook top were added to the job.

Instantly 6 openings disappeared.

I want to leave some open spaces for any future work and am now finding adding 3 tandems.

No reasonable way to add a sub panel due to location and it being a flush mount install.

I’ve never used a tandem that I can recall in many years of doing new builds, just bothers me seeing them in there.
 
N

nizak

Senior Member
LarryFine said:
I have no problem with it. Tandems are merely two 1-pole breakers in one case.

I do prefer to start with the lowest-rated circuits first; i.e., 15a circuits, then 20s.
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Agreed.
I thought about combining some light loads together and pig tailing to a single breaker.

Then I thought what if it gets overloaded and I’ve got a call back.

Job is 180 miles away.

I guess the $18 tandems are the best way to go.
 
T

tthh

Senior Member
Location
Denver
Occupation
Retired Engineer
In my humble opinion, with the need for GFCI and AFCI on so many things, tandem breakers are probably not a good plan. I always viewed them as expanison down the road just in case rather than the original plan.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Tandem breakers (and panels) wouldn't still be available if they were historically problematic.

As far as appearance (and cost!) goes, ask the customer if they would rather see two panels.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
tthh said:
In my humble opinion, with the need for GFCI and AFCI on so many things, tandem breakers are probably not a good plan. I always viewed them as expanison down the road just in case rather than the original plan.
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As the OP mentioned, loads got added after planning. That has happened to me many times.

Generally speaking, I agree with you.
 
James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I use tandems on new installs wherever I can.
The price difference per handle is minimal:
$18 for tandem vs. $8 X2 for standard

Speaking of filling up quick, I like to use a 30/60
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
James L said:
With almost everything in the house needing afci protection, there's not a whole lot to tandem.

But bathrooms, garage, basement, outside circuits are good candidates. I can usually use a half dozen
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That's true unless you're doing a service change or upgrade. These new 30/60, 40/80, etc. panels are pretty useless with AFCI's.
 
R

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
LarryFine said:
Tandem breakers (and panels) wouldn't still be available if they were historically problematic.
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Panel flippers may have cause to avoid tandems, if casualties of holiday cooking & typical remodels, which both typically increase load without capacity.

Like xFCI, tandems trip before other thermal magnetic devices, when sandwiched between hot breakers.

With less surface area to dissipate heat, tandems & quads heat up faster, and take longer to cool down enough to reset, with 1-pole HVAC loads, and kitchen appliances on SABC's.
 
R

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
LarryFine said:
I can't help but wonder why you are experiencing so many hot breakers. :unsure:
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Power failure is a common service for electricians in my area.

When unqualified person's ad appliances, avoiding inspection invites overload hazards, much more without load calcs, and without ampacity adjustments from rooftops, or bundling wires together.

Overheated wire may exceed max ratings, which typically burns up devices in boxes, but also damages the cables behind walls, which becomes the fuse that burns down the building.

IMHO, the insurance industry is well aware they can deny claims out of hand, and keep all premiums paid, since the insured occupants have a common enemy with government, permits, and inspectors.
 
C

Crash117

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
C-2 electrical contractor/owner operator
letgomywago said:
Remember Siemens makes a tandem AFCI. Idk how long till others make that available but it's out there now.
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Right! And these tandem AFCI from Siemens don’t require neutral on the breaker. With the plug on neutral type, there’s only your hot circuit wire on the breaker. Makes for much less wire in the panel.
 
James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
infinity said:
That's true unless you're doing a service change or upgrade. These new 30/60, 40/80, etc. panels are pretty useless with AFCI's.
Click to expand...
I've usually got 4 circuits in a basement (furnace, sump, lights, service recep), 2 bathroom receptacle circuits, 1 or 2 garage circuits and at least an ac service recep, so a 30/60 panel is gonna be close to 40 after those tandems
 
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