Tapping off panel bus

[dm9289]

The attached picture shows wires under a busbar obviously incorrect method.

But my question is if you use a proper lug could you tap here to feed a sub panel?
Would not generally be a method i would choose but just wandering

Older cutler Hammer box could not find model info no listing of model or specs

I also circled top left this appears to be missing bonding screw???? First disconnecting means is panel.

 

[jim dungar]

I would say this is a field modification that may impact the UL Listing.
Among other issues.
There may not be sufficient wire bending space based on the number if conductors.
The heat rise associated with this clone action may also be a concern.
The clearance between the interior dead front and a proper lug may be compromised.

 

[dm9289]

I would say this is a field modification that may impact the UL Listing.
Among other issues.
There may not be sufficient wire bending space based on the number if conductors.
The heat rise associated with this clone action may also be a concern.
The clearance between the interior dead front and a proper lug may be compromised.

I tend to agree with you just a talking point. I like to throw things out there cause maybe it was common and I just did not know

 

[jaggedben]

If they had put chair lugs under the nuts i would figure it's probably pretty safe but it would still bring up the issues jim mentions and be a code violation. And the manufacturer wouldn't give you their blessing. Anything goes wrong the person who did it would be completely on the hook for liability.

 

[Fred B]

Bonding screw if there is no disconnect overcurrent protection ahead would need to be added, simple issue.
Now the other circles on the L1/L2 that is a bigger issue. Splaying the stranded conductor and laying under the buss bolt-on is asking for trouble. Getting and maintaining proper torque on those nuts likely impossible. Arcing and associated heating under load will compromise both the conductors and the buss.
Also there is evidence of someone shorted out something on the left main strap by the slagg bubble and notch created at the outer angle point just above the conductor tap.

What was the reason for this poorly created tap? Was this a solar installation gone wrong?
If this is desired setup, a crimp on ring connector sized correctly would allow for achieving and maintaining proper torque of those nuts. Code or listing compliance in doing this is another question.

Ps: You also have a double tapped neutral on bottom of N/G bus.

 

[jaggedben]

...

What was the reason for this poorly created tap? Was this a solar installation gone wrong?

Aside from being an unfair dig at solar - I've seen such terrible work in dozens of cases before I got involved, including from licensed ECs - that's less likely because solar contractors don't have the option of doing work without permits and inspection.

Looks to me like a DIY way to add a subpanel without moving any loads out of the panel shown. Either because the panel is full or because they didn't know that CH makes tandems.

 

[dm9289]

Bonding screw if there is no disconnect overcurrent protection ahead would need to be added, simple issue.
Now the other circles on the L1/L2 that is a bigger issue. Splaying the stranded conductor and laying under the buss bolt-on is asking for trouble. Getting and maintaining proper torque on those nuts likely impossible. Arcing and associated heating under load will compromise both the conductors and the buss.
Also there is evidence of someone shorted out something on the left main strap by the slagg bubble and notch created at the outer angle point just above the conductor tap.

What was the reason for this poorly created tap? Was this a solar installation gone wrong?
If this is desired setup, a crimp on ring connector sized correctly would allow for achieving and maintaining proper torque of those nuts. Code or listing compliance in doing this is another question.

Ps: You also have a double tapped neutral on bottom of N/G bus.

Bonding screw if there is no disconnect overcurrent protection ahead would need to be added, simple issue.
No OC before i told individual to add screw proper to that panel

Now the other circles on the L1/L2 that is a bigger issue. Splaying the stranded conductor and laying under the buss bolt-on is asking for trouble. Getting and maintaining proper torque on those nuts likely impossible. Arcing and associated heating under load will compromise both the conductors and the buss.
Looks very bad i agree recommended adding double pull to feed sub panel. Was maybe thinking it was something people do with a lug that i was not aware of

Also there is evidence of someone shorted out something on the left main strap by the slag bubble and notch created at the outer angle point just above the conductor tap.

What was the reason for this poorly created tap? Was this a solar installation gone wrong?
If this is desired setup, a crimp on ring connector sized correctly would allow for achieving and maintaining proper torque of those nuts. Code or listing compliance in doing this is another question.
This appears to have been some homemade work subpanel a foot a way 3 wire only no ground bar

Ps: You also have a double tapped neutral on bottom of N/G bus.
Yes i seen and advised also.


Thanks Fred for your input

 

[dm9289]

Aside from being an unfair dig at solar - I've seen such terrible work in dozens of cases before I got involved, including from licensed ECs - that's less likely because solar contractors don't have the option of doing work without permits and inspection.

Looks to me like a DIY way to add a subpanel without moving any loads out of the panel shown. Either because the panel is full or because they didn't know that CH makes tandems.

The more pics I got sent the worse it looked some water pipe bonding issues also. Just bad overall work.

 

[Fred B]

Aside from being an unfair dig at solar - I've seen such terrible work in dozens of cases before I got involved, including from licensed ECs - that's less likely because solar contractors don't have the option of doing work without permits and inspection.

Looks to me like a DIY way to add a subpanel without moving any loads out of the panel shown. Either because the panel is full or because they didn't know that CH makes tandems.

Not a dig at solar only that solar is commonly making a direct taps but usually with proper methods. I have seen a rare occasion a new employee made some bigger oops. My thought was a DIY solar.

 

[jaggedben]

Well that would be a bad place for a solar tap because almost certainly it would violate the rules in 705.12. If it were done on the line side of the main breaker then that location might make sense for solar.