Tapping

[brother]

Im still learning the trade, my question is about tapping circuits.

Theres this old house(duplex) that have a 100 amp old panel with the screw in type fuses, As some of you know there arent much room in those for more circuits.
I noticed that over time they installed a dryer circuit and of course a hot water heater. My problem is that they used breakers instead of fuses (because there wasnt enough room of course)

They tapped off of the main feed that was feeding the old 100 amp panel and mounted a seperate box with a 30 amp breaker in it to feed the water heater and another one for the dryer. Is this Legal?? Is this to Code?? Was ever allowed back then when they were making the breakers instead of fuses?

My understanding is that you can tap branch circuits from OTHER branch circuits in the same dwelling under SPECIAL conditions but it is NOT allowed in a residential dwelling to tap off the MAIN FEED for branch circuits in that residential dwelling.

I thought every circuit in the House had to be able to be shut off from the main disconnect to the house EVEN in the old days. Correct me if im wrong, cause im having trouble finding the answer in the Nec to support my position. Only thing ive found is 230.70 "Means shall be provided to disconnect ALL conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance conductors"

 

[david]

Re: Tapping

When I look at some of these fixes I think wouldn?t it be better on an old system to up-grade the service?

You are aloud up to six service disconnects in one location. The fused panel most likely has a main. The second panel with the water heater and dryer should have a main and should be rated as a service disconnect and all of the grounding and bonding rules for a service should have been applied to this second panel.

As far as the tap on the service entrance conductor goes it is going to depend on how it was done.

 

[el santo]

Re: Tapping

brother man what u have is a fly by night bootleg man that did that work if i were u i would rip out all that mess and install a new service because the tap rule does not apply here it is as u said ILLEGAL

 

[david]

Re: Tapping

I personally would rip out the old and in with the new. But I don?t see how it from the original post this is illegal. It is most likely old and out lived its usefulness. But I question the statement that it is Illegal.

230.46 Spliced Conductors.
Service-entrance conductors shall be permitted to be spliced or tapped in accordance with 110.14, 300.5(E), 300.13, and 300.15.

I would think it depends on how the tap was made

 

[iwire]

Re: Tapping

Originally posted by el santo:
i would rip out all that mess and install a new service because the tap rule does not apply here it is as u said ILLEGAL

El Santo do you have some code references to show that this is illegal?

I agree with David it all depends on how this was done.

230.71 allows up to six service disconnects for each service.

If there is a violation here I think it would most likely be 110.14, electrical connections.

If they jammed more than one wire per terminal on the original panel, that would be a 110.14 violation.

 

[el santo]

Re: Tapping

iwire tapping off the 100amp service to a sub-panel with two 30amp breakers in the subpanel, is not what the code considers allowing up to 6 disconnects per service where is the main breaker for the sub-panel, but in away i agree, a picture says a lot, but working around electrical for a # of years i can almost bet the installation in this case is illegal 230.-46 refers to when splices are made where metering equipment is located on the line side of service equipment, service busways, taps for supplying up to six diconnecting means, and repairing exsisting underground conductors

 

[iwire]

Re: Tapping

Originally posted by el santo:
iwire tapping off the 100amp service to a sub-panel with two 30amp breakers in the subpanel, is not what the code considers allowing up to 6 disconnects per service where is the main breaker for the sub-panel,

el santo I agree with you if this added panel has no main, I was looking at it as a panel with it's own main to protect the bus.

As for splicing service conductors I see no restrictions

230.46 Spliced Conductors.
Service-entrance conductors shall be permitted to be spliced or tapped in accordance with 110.14, 300.5(E), 300.13, and 300.15.

Bob

[ July 14, 2003, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]