Temp repairs and liability.

[LarryFine]

That's good! Would you please sign a rlease for me (in triplicate) so I may quote you?

You have my blessing, but I can't speak for the source. :wink:

 

[frizbeedog]

I've always just used the working premise that there are additional safe ways to install electrical wiring that don't seem to square with the code, only nobody's figured out a good way to word it yet to be placed in the NEC.

Regarding temp repairs or permanent un-squaring?

 

[220/221]

i would never consider an emergency repair with the idea of another contractor finishing the repair. and i don't think the inspection department would allow such a deal?

How could the owner agree to that if it takes days to get a proper quote together? I am talking about a new client BTW. An existing client would trust me to do whatever it takes and I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

Also, if you get a tem repair inspected, what are their guidelines for approval if not the NEC.

 

[growler]

How could the owner agree to that if it takes days to get a proper quote together?

There are many contractors that will quote that job in 30 minutes. If a quote is not fessable then go on the clock a T&M. It won't be cheap but they will have a quote for emergengy repairs. If these repairs include tearing out that mess and starting over then so be it. Not having A/C just helps them make up their mind faster. If the A/C then needs to be temped until a time for scheduled shut down it's part of an on going job.

If they were all that interested in staying open they shouldn't have that mess to start with. Looks like it's been temped before. :wink:

They either make up their mind to get it repaired correctly or you walk away.

 

[SEO]

WWYD?

Where do you draw the line? Often a temp repair is required to get a building up and running while a permanant solution is worked out thru engineers, inspectors and POCO's.

No one wants to shut down a business or move to a hotel for weeks/months until everything gets done but what is the dollar value assigned to the liability in temp repair situations?

Last week I looked at an old commercial building (strip center circa 1960) with no AC to two of the units, occupied by the same tennant.

I found 2 services which had been cobbled together to make one. The AC breaker/bus was gone. Obviously there wasn't a quick permanant solution but there was a way to get AC back up as safe as it was before.

In the old days I would have just done it. Now days I am more concerned with liability. I was going to temp repair it but wanted to be compensated for my liability. About two hours of breaker/panel juggling and a handfull of breakers would have gotten the AC's back on (it's still 105+ here).

At T&M rates it would have been about $500 but I asked for $1025 and a promise that they fix it right, right away....by somebody qualified.

I didn't get a return call so I assume he is trying to find someone else.

I would given them an approximate price to repair the job, but on an emergency repair I wouldn't do a temp fix and wait for other contractors to line up and quote. I'd bill them for a service call and then get in line with the others. On temp repairs Art 590 comes into play see section 590.2 (A) and section 590.3 (A)

 

[wireguru]

i would never consider an emergency repair with the idea of another contractor finishing the repair. and i don't think the inspection department would allow such a deal? to take over my permit they would need my signature along with the approval of the building department. although the emergency repair is far from code complient --my responsibility is to keep the installation safe. in all these cases we are back on site the following days/weeks gathering demensions and information for the manufacturer along with monitoring amperages and assuring the emergency install is safe and remains that way. the vault bus stub expolsion required a three day weekend to replace existing damaged switchgear that had to be replaced by removing the original gear piece by piece and then replacing it by rebuilding the new gear in place since the room had no access for the assembled switchboard. it was G.E. gear and we hired two factory assemblers to assemble the new gear. it was quite a feat! and i was not a big contractor, but gutsy! this service was on a55 story building.

got any pictures of that?

 

[charlietuna]

i have some prints somewhere(?) and will see if i can scan some and post them, plus some other blow ups!

as far as estimating an emergency repair--forget it! and i have never had anyone question me about price before or after any of my emergency repairs! you must understand that when you call the manufacturer for emergency gear or bus duct--they stop their assembly system on ordered equipment--to build your's..... the price is the price! and they know it's insurance money so hang on to your wallet! at the time you don't care, your too busy getting the temporary work complete to safely get the building up and running. freight is another thing--usually requires a direct shipment-you pay for the wholw truck both directions! then as the gear becomes available you get with the customer to schedual a building shutdown for the installation of the new switchgear while including some time for problems in the field. examples are forklift rentals, air compressor with a backup for pnematic tools,backup tools,rental cars and lodging for the factory workers--on site food for the entire crew--snacks--coffee--soda--water etc! and of course beer when the job is finished...

 

[Buck Parrish]

Not having A/C just helps them make up their mind faster. They either make up their mind to get it repaired correctly or you walk away.

That's right. It's been my expierience that If you can start right away.
They don't get a second estimate $$$$,
The costumer doesn't need to no all the details. Just have them sign a contract. Temp the AC then order the parts to fix it right.

 

[wireguru]

i have some prints somewhere(?) and will see if i can scan some and post them, plus some other blow ups!

as far as estimating an emergency repair--forget it! and i have never had anyone question me about price before or after any of my emergency repairs! you must understand that when you call the manufacturer for emergency gear or bus duct--they stop their assembly system on ordered equipment--to build your's..... the price is the price! and they know it's insurance money so hang on to your wallet! at the time you don't care, your too busy getting the temporary work complete to safely get the building up and running. freight is another thing--usually requires a direct shipment-you pay for the wholw truck both directions! then as the gear becomes available you get with the customer to schedual a building shutdown for the installation of the new switchgear while including some time for problems in the field. examples are forklift rentals, air compressor with a backup for pnematic tools,backup tools,rental cars and lodging for the factory workers--on site food for the entire crew--snacks--coffee--soda--water etc! and of course beer when the job is finished...

yep. a dark 55 story building can run into 6 figure daily losses (at least around here based on million square foot building) the cost of some bus duct is the least of their problems :wink:

 

[DanZ]

Actually-if you leave your service truck parked in your driveway and do not go to work--you are fairly safe???

Nope. Someone will come along, see the name, and sue the company. Maybe it was leaking oil that leeched into the drinking water...

"A ship in the harbor is safe ~ but that's not what ships are for."

Yeah. I'm sure the people in Pearl Harbor would agree with you.

No matter what you do, there is always liability. It sounds like what you wanted to do as a temp fix would not have been safe, and walked away. I think that's a smart move.:grin:

 

[makalroy]

Why not just replace the panel? That wouldn't take long and I dont believe it would be a code violation. Would it?