Temporary outdoor wiring

[lazorko]

A client is hiring a DJ to host an outdoor event. The DJ will be providing outdoor lighting, video, and music effects and has a power panel that he wants to energize from the owner's panelbard. I haven't seen the equipment yet, but suggested they use a GFCI breaker to energize their power panel; I'm concerned about the potential for electrical shock from equipment. The DJ outfit is resisting the suggestion because they don't want to deal with false tripping during the event.

I've read 525-18, but it seems to say that only 15A and 20A, 120V general use recepticals are required to be GFCI protected. Arguably, none of the equipment that would be installed is "general use", but could pose shock hazards, nonetheless. Am I being overly cautious, or am I missing something?

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[George Stolz]

In the 2005, you would not be required to comply with Article 525, IMO. A party with a DJ would not be similar to a circus... well, not in the technical sense.

You would need to comply with Article 640, Parts I & III. These don't make mention of GFCI protection, except near bodies of water.

So, since the normal requirements of 210.8 are not modified, then you must comply with those. Therefore, by 210.8(A)(3) all 120 V 15A & 20A outdoor receptacles associated with a dwelling unit must be protected. If it's other than a dwelling unit, then by 210.8(B)(4) these receptacles would need to be protected if they're accessible by the public (which they likely are.)

So, to heck with the guy. Protect them.

 

[iwire]

You definitely do not want to GFCI protect a feeder, IMO you would likely have tripping issues do to the circuit lengths and collective leakage current of all the items.

I also personally would not GFCI protect individual outlets. It is not required.

I would (and have) look over the general condition of the equipment and cords that the DJ brings, do not hesitate to refuse to hook up junk. Make sure the ground paths are intact and all the normal NEC rules are followed.

If he brings a power distribution panel look it over before energizing it.

 

[George Stolz]

I get all excited that I get to look in a new and exciting part of the code, and then Bob comes along and points out the obvious: The panel is not a receptacle. I didn't read the original post closely enough, definutely listen to Bob on this one.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This event is a temporary installation, and as such needs to conform to Art 590.

The OP does not say if this is for a dwelling or other than a dwelling, I will assume a dwelling.

I am not sure what Bob meant by not protecting individual "outlets" with GFCI protection, but I say for all receptacles, 125V, 15 or 20 amperes will require GFCI protection. Also this guys lighting will also have to conform to Art 590. If you are responsible for attaching to his equipment, I would be concerned for the liability of not checking out his equipment.
What kind of power panel does this guy have? Is it a listed assembly or homemade hodgpodge????

 

[iwire]

I am not sure what Bob meant by not protecting individual "outlets" with GFCI protection, but I say for all receptacles, 125V, 15 or 20 amperes will require GFCI protection.

Pierre what 2005 code section requires GFCI protection for these receptacles?

 

[lazorko]

The HO will be connecting some 120V loads by extension cords to recepticals in the basement, all of which are GFCI protected; they may experience false tripping on those, but that's life.

I will not be connecting any of the DJ equipment, and won't be on hand for the set-up (I need a vacation, too!) but wanted to do in advance what I can to make that setup safer. The DJ outfit will be providing and connecting their own equipment. I guess I would be well off to wash my hands of the issue, let the DJ do his thing and accept liability for any outcome.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Bob

If this DJ is providing equipment that has receptacles, and this is a dwelling, than either 210.8(A) or 590.6(A) will need to be complied with.

I know that most DJs do interior work, but not all of their work is interior....

 

[realolman]

.
What kind of power panel does this guy have? Is it a listed assembly or homemade hodgpodge????

Is there nothing else possible?

Can't an individual make anything that is well done and safe?

It aggravates me that if someone hasn't been paid to put a sticker on something, it's automatically assumed to be hodgepodge. Never mind that no one bothers to determine whether or not the job was well done; just that Caesar hasn't been paid his tribute.

I'm sure that it's probably true in case of lawsuit liability, but I think it's a sad state of affairs.

And while I'm airing aggravations... fer Gad's sake, Iwire, turn down the font on yer tagline!

 

[iwire]

Bob

If this DJ is providing equipment that has receptacles, and this is a dwelling, than either 210.8(A) or 590.6(A) will need to be complied with.

Pierre 590.6(A) does not apply to this type of installation.

210.8 I did not think of that, my experience setting up temporary concert power was never at a dwelling unit.

Perhaps a reasonable inspector would allow GFCI cord sets as are allowed for circuses / carnivals / fairs.

(edit: less aditude..)

 

[iwire]

And while I'm airing aggravations... fer Gad's sake, Iwire, turn down the font on yer tagline!

No, small font aggravates me.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

realolman
Welcome to the world in which we live in. Listed products help to assure the installation will be somewhat safe. If the sound guy builds his own equipment, who knows how it will really perform??? Can you say with conviction, " don't worry all will be fine"? I doubt it.




Bob
Why can I not use 590.6

590.1 Scope.
the provisions of this article apply to temporary electrical power and lighting installations.

 

[iwire]

realolman
Welcome to the world in which we live in. Listed products help to assure the installation will be somewhat safe. If the sound guy builds his own equipment, who knows how it will really perform??? Can you say with conviction, " don't worry all will be fine"? I doubt it.

I don't see any requirement that says a portable power panel must have a specific listing as such.

Any panel set up following the NEC rules and 110.3(B) will be compliant.

Bob
Why can I not use 590.6

590.1 Scope.
the provisions of this article apply to temporary electrical power and lighting installations.

590.6 Ground-Fault Protection for Personnel.
Ground-fault protection for personnel for all temporary wiring installations shall be provided to comply with 527.6(A) and (B). This section shall apply only to temporary wiring installations used to supply temporary power to equipment used by personnel during construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, equipment, or similar activities.

A party is not construction, remodeling, repair or demolition.

(Well some party's are kind of destructive. )

 

[realolman]

realolman
Welcome to the world in which we live in. Listed products help to assure the installation will be somewhat safe. If the sound guy builds his own equipment, who knows how it will really perform??? Can you say with conviction, " don't worry all will be fine"? I doubt it.



.

I imagine there are dozens of people reading this forum who could build a panel that was as safe as anyone's with a UL listing.

I recently had a problem with a 480v mag. panel with a UL listing that had a properly fused transformer feeding a recept., that was on the line side of the main disconnect. Seems to me there should have been some mention on the outside cover that the main disconnect did not de-energize the entire panel... whether it's necessary or not to qualify for a UL listing.

I called them up and they said it was for computer power to program the PLC, which was on the load side of the main, fed from a different transformer. I have never tried to program a de-energized PLC.. .maybe you can, I don't know, but it seems to me that the listing doesn't necessarily assure safety, but is does assure someone collected some money.

If it was constructed properly in the first place, that money is for nothing.

 

[muskiedog]

Outdoor concerts and DJ's

Outdoor concerts and DJ's

We have concerts in the parks and the hook into a pavillion with GFCi outlets. The musicians are on the lawns and storms break out at anytime and we do have the potential for contact with water. We have yet to have any of the equipment trip while these concerts are taking place and it has been three years of fun. Just fodder for thought.