Thats one hot neutral

A

alexdeleon

Member
Location
Los angeles
Occupation
Sparky
A homeowner recently informed us that their lights and bathroom plugs stopped working after our company installed a solar system. Upon inspection, we found that combining the two hot wires resulted in one neutral wire becoming energized. Is the homeowner lying?
 
S

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Could that be a switch loop for a light fixture? Even if not, with a lamp in the fixture and the neutral broken, the neutral will appear hot and the bulb won't light up if you put 120V on the black. That is one of the most common ways to zap yourself thinking its just a neutral. Do you know what you are looking at in the wall?

Troubleshooting this stuff is a pain if the homeowner installed the switch and got wires crossed. Looks like only 2 cables in the box which should be simple. The 2 gang boxes with multiple -3 cables can be more of a mess.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
There are two white wires separated, it could be as simple as an open neutral.
 
E

Elect117

Senior Member
Location
California
Occupation
Engineer E.E. P.E.
Was anything moved at the panel to make space for the solar install? Did the panel get replaced?

I don't see how just adding solar could cause an issue unless something at the panel was messed.
 
J

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
alexdeleon said:
A homeowner recently informed us that their lights and bathroom plugs stopped working after our company installed a solar system. Upon inspection, we found that combining the two hot wires resulted in one neutral wire becoming energized. Is the homeowner lying?
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I've experienced both, but the fact that I do solar instead of some other kind of electrical work is irrelevant. When something stopped working it was because my guy knocked something loose in a panel, or swapped a bad breaker for a good one in the course of rearranging breakers to make space for our new one, or something like that. In other words, normal stuff that could happen to anyone adding any circuit to a pretty full panel.

I've also experienced the homeowner lying.

As far as your photo, like others said that doesn't shed enough light on the situation. It looks to me like you opened a neutral, but not enough info to be sure. It could have been normal before you unwired that device. Was the breaker on when you took that picture?
 
N

NoahsArc

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Residential EC
alexdeleon said:
combining the two hot wires
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What exactly does this mean?

Regardless, I'm going to echo everyone saying "that one white might be a switch loop" and "also probably a loose neutral."

In houses, practically any call that's "hey something weird is going on" typically means "a neutral came loose somewhere".

Go over your own installation and every box your guys touched and check splices, including in the panel. But usually the location of the issues and the layout of house circuits will dictate where to look. If it's nowhere near the work you did, then it can be just coincidental unless you messed up the install somehow (I haven't dealt with PV enough to say).
 
J

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
NoahsArc said:
...

Go over your own installation and every box your guys touched and check splices, including in the panel. ...
Click to expand...

Normally when one does solar (not including battery backup) one only touches a panel. If one didn't affect the breaker or neutral in the panel, for the affected circuit, then probably the problem was pre-exisiting. Once in a blue moon someone might put a drill or screw through romex in the wall, but since a lot of what we do is all outside, that's rare.
 
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NoahsArc

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Residential EC
jaggedben said:
Normally when one does solar (not including battery backup) one only touches a panel. If one didn't affect the breaker or neutral in the panel, for the affected circuit, then probably the problem was pre-exisiting. Once in a blue moon someone might put a drill or screw through romex in the wall, but since a lot of what we do is all outside, that's rare.
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That's what I would think, but I'm not really sure why he's got a picture of a basic wall switch box here and I guessed that somehow I was confused on this one...
 
J

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
NoahsArc said:
That's what I would think, but I'm not really sure why he's got a picture of a basic wall switch box here and I guessed that somehow I was confused on this one...
Click to expand...

Well, he started investigating the circuit the customer complained about. Which I probably wouldn't have done. I'd have checked what I'd done in the panel, maybe investigated if I was worried my guy hit a cable inside the wall, and if that all checked out then "Sorry Sir/Ma'am, this must be an fluky coincidence. Let me show you how everything we touched is fine. You need to get an electrician out here to check that out. We'll pay for it if you can absolutely prove it was us."
 
T

TwistLock

Member
Location
California
Occupation
Electrician
Amazing how many things magically fix themselves over the phone when you tell the client you didn't work on that circuit but that you will be there asap to troubleshoot the problem as long as they understand it's going to be a service call if it's not related.
 
M

miless090

Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician/Instructor
It is hard to say without being there with a proper meter. But first glance, it looks like it is a traveler, not a neutral, given that is a three way switch
 
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