The ‘Ol “12 Inch Spacing” Rule Again

Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Goin’ Down In Flames........
Location
Humboldt
Occupation
EC and GC
🙄

Did a residential generator the other day. 70’ trench, 1 1/4” poly gas line and CableMaster TC-ER GenCable in the trench.

Inspectigator came for rough and said “yeah it should be separated, it’s just standard”, and then signs the card.

When he comes out for final he mentions it again, says you’ll have to separate them in the future.

I asked him which Code is that? PG&E has rules for their stuff in the Green Book, but this is private, and you don’t enforce the green book anyway. It’s not an NEC requirement, and it’s not in the Plumbing Code, I’ve read the entire thing.

Maybe it’s in NFPA 54, Fuel Gas Code, but my county hasn’t officially adopted that Code. And he didn’t even know, said he was going to look it up and “maybe it’s a County ordinance”. Their are no local amendments listed on my counties website under the list of adopted Codes.

I wish people would just stop with this stuff. Once it gets into people’s heads, it’s there forever. 🙄😡
 
Looking through the PG&E Green Book… 12” separation for joint trenches, but you’re correct that is for service. You’re lines are not part of the POCO installation. POCO rules shouldn’t apply. I don’t see anything in the NEC, but maybe someone here knows otherwise. Mike Holt always warns us about “yah I always heard it was…”

The Inspector has to tell you what code they supposedly enforcing.
 
JimsGT said:
Looking through the PG&E Green Book… 12” separation for joint trenches, but you’re correct that is for service. You’re lines are not part of the POCO installation. POCO rules shouldn’t apply. I don’t see anything in the NEC, but maybe someone here knows otherwise. Mike Holt always warns us about “yah I always heard it was…”

The Inspector has to tell you what code they supposedly enforcing.
Click to expand...

Oh he will on the next. 👍😂
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
🙄

Did a residential generator the other day. 70’ trench, 1 1/4” poly gas line and CableMaster TC-ER GenCable in the trench.

Inspectigator came for rough and said “yeah it should be separated, it’s just standard”, and then signs the card.

When he comes out for final he mentions it again, says you’ll have to separate them in the future.

I asked him which Code is that? PG&E has rules for their stuff in the Green Book, but this is private, and you don’t enforce the green book anyway. It’s not an NEC requirement, and it’s not in the Plumbing Code, I’ve read the entire thing.

Maybe it’s in NFPA 54, Fuel Gas Code, but my county hasn’t officially adopted that Code. And he didn’t even know, said he was going to look it up and “maybe it’s a County ordinance”. Their are no local amendments listed on my counties website under the list of adopted Codes.

I wish people would just stop with this stuff. Once it gets into people’s heads, it’s there forever. 🙄😡
Click to expand...
TX+MASTER#4544
Never heard of an "Inspectigator".
Careful.......he could be!
Think about it, he could your next job's inspector.......
 
Recently someone told me electrical and sewer need to be 12" separated. Is that the same or different? The question also came up with electrical and water.
 
There needs to be a code, written in a code book, for it to have any value. All of these things seem to be taken from POCO and other utility handbooks regarding you installing facilities and then handing them over to the utility. But once it is a private facility, there are no codes that I have ever been shown. If you ask Google AI it will link to a bunch of POCO handbooks that do not apply to private.
 
jaggedben said:
Recently someone told me electrical and sewer need to be 12" separated. Is that the same or different? The question also came up with electrical and water.
Click to expand...
Each POCO has their own rules or that. So you’ll need to check with them regarding what can run with THEIR service.

For PG&E, a POCO in California, you can joint trench THEIR natural gas and THEIR electricity with 12” separation. Sewer, water, propane, data, telecom, and CATV require a different trench from natural gas and electricity at least 3’ away.
 
TX+ MASTER#4544 said:
TX+MASTER#4544
Never heard of an "Inspectigator".
Careful.......he could be!
Think about it, he could your next job's inspector.......
Click to expand...

He does probably 80% of my inspections. It’s by area in my county, not big enough to have separate trade inspectors.

He’s a cool guy, former contractor, we get along well. It’s just funny how this stuff pops up.

I have my own “rules” that I have always thought were required, that I have found out were not. Like flex lines to water heaters. @Joe.B fixed me on that one. 👍
 
Birken Vogt said:
There needs to be a code, written in a code book, for it to have any value. All of these things seem to be taken from POCO and other utility handbooks regarding you installing facilities and then handing them over to the utility. But once it is a private facility, there are no codes that I have ever been shown. If you ask Google AI it will link to a bunch of POCO handbooks that do not apply to private.
Click to expand...

My understanding, from getting deeper into the Green book lately for some projects, is it has more to do with accessibility for future repair work, than anything else.

The idea that a gas line might leak, and then an electrical conduit might be damaged and the wiring inside be damaged as well, in such a way as to cause an arc, and ignite the leaking gas, is pure fantasy. In my opinion.

It originated with utilities wanting access to lines for maintenance purposes, as far as I know.
 
JimsGT said:
Each POCO has their own rules or that. So you’ll need to check with them regarding what can run with THEIR service.

For PG&E, a POCO in California, you can joint trench THEIR natural gas and THEIR electricity with 12” separation. Sewer, water, propane, data, telecom, and CATV require a different trench from natural gas and electricity at least 3’ away.
Click to expand...
Uh oh someone said it, Im so angry I just threw my plate of spaghetti at the wall as hard as I could... 🤬 🤬

😂
 
JimsGT said:
Each POCO has their own rules or that. So you’ll need to check with them regarding what can run with THEIR service.

For PG&E, a POCO in California, you can joint trench THEIR natural gas and THEIR electricity with 12” separation. Sewer, water, propane, data, telecom, and CATV require a different trench from natural gas and electricity at least 3’ away.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm not interested in POCO rules here. Let's say for customer owned stuff is there anything in the mechanical code. I'm not aware of anything in the electrical code.
 
jaggedben said:
Yeah I'm not interested in POCO rules here. Let's say for customer owned stuff is there anything in the mechanical code. I'm not aware of anything in the electrical code.
Click to expand...
Absolutely nothing I have ever seen or been shown.

I have an excavation sub that brings a private locator with him for jobs he calls "ground surgery". They use the usual locator, and even a ground stethoscope to hear the pipes that are plastic and have no metal locator. Then commence digging and crossing all this junk. Do you think we put any special effort in to make sure our pipes cross x number of inches above or below the water, the sewer, the gas, or whatever?

We just cross wherever and that's that.

We also throw generator gas and electric in the same 6 inch wide trench, where it suits us.

Nobody has called it yet.
 
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